Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Allsaints

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • gavagai
    Senior Member
    • May 2010
    • 468

    #91
    Originally posted by endersgame View Post
    there was an intern that came to my office to pick something up. he wore this nice looking leather and i asked him if it was rick. he said it was ASS and i continued to compliment him.

    i wasn't going to put him down for it, but i understand that certain people who want certain things, spend a certain amount of money they are allowed to. ASS just fullfills that certain demographic and that's fine by me. and if there are any infringements on design, then the law is at fault for not protecting the original design. ASS is just doing what it needs to do to be profitable, just like any other business.

    i just don't think it's worth discussing really. like heirloom said, there's more pressing things to worry about.

    and drrrk, i appreciate nice things, but i clip coupons at costco like everyone else..

    I suppose the law is at fault for allowing companies to exploit low wage workers in China? Reliance upon "law" is the worlds biggest cop out.

    Comment

    • endersgame
      Senior Member
      • Aug 2009
      • 1623

      #92
      so start a crusade, picket in front of an ASS store, write to your local congressman, and do something about it.

      Comment

      • gavagai
        Senior Member
        • May 2010
        • 468

        #93
        Originally posted by endersgame View Post
        so start a crusade, picket in front of an ASS store, write to your local congressman, and do something about it.
        I don't give them my business.

        Comment

        • messenoire
          Senior Member
          • Nov 2009
          • 1232

          #94
          what do you think the difference between all saints and the koreans doing relatively well-made counterfit rick leathers is? do you think if the korean rip-offs were to call themselves a company instead of passing it off as "rick owens" would be more well respected? it's been established that all saints directly rips off rick/julius leathers, so what do you think the major difference between the two are besides allsaints having a name to operate under which the counterfitters still try to pass it off as rick? they're essentially doing the same thing just slightly different ways of doing it. this may be a bit reaching but at which point regarding garments do things stop becoming counterfeit and start becoming "inspired by"?

          Comment

          • gavagai
            Senior Member
            • May 2010
            • 468

            #95
            Originally posted by messenoire View Post
            what do you think the difference between all saints and the koreans doing relatively well-made counterfit rick leathers is? do you think if the korean rip-offs were to call themselves a company instead of passing it off as "rick owens" would be more well respected? it's been established that all saints directly rips off rick/julius leathers, so what do you think the major difference between the two are besides allsaints having a name to operate under which the counterfitters still try to pass it off as rick? they're essentially doing the same thing just slightly different ways of doing it. this may be a bit reaching but at which point regarding garments do things stop becoming counterfeit and start becoming "inspired by"?
            Rick Owens has invested a lot of time and money into branding "RICK OWENS" the label. People expect a certain quality of manufacturing and materials when they purchase Rick Owens items. Customers will not always know that they have fake items and that can cause damage to your brand.

            Trademarking and branding cost a lot of money and it costs substantial money to protect these rights. These are the costs of manufacturing and doing business. You can't just go into Italy set up a factory and start making clothing. You have to have a legitimate business and you have to have trademarks for the classes of goods you are making.

            While All Saints may take these designs and make small changes that is a far cry from the harm caused by counterfeiting.

            Comment

            • messenoire
              Senior Member
              • Nov 2009
              • 1232

              #96
              Originally posted by gavagai View Post
              Rick Owens has invested a lot of time and money into branding "RICK OWENS" the label. People expect a certain quality of manufacturing and materials when they purchase these items. Someone who counterfeits is actively engaging in unlawful activities and infringing upon Rick Owens Intellectual property rights.

              Trademarking and branding costs alot of money and it costs substantial money toprotect these rights.

              While All Saints may take these designs and make small changes that is a far cry from detriment caused by counterfeiting.
              while i do agree that the brand infringement is the main issue, my question is if these counterfeiters, koreans to be exact because they make a better quality item as most would agree, were to start a label under a new name and not say they were rick owens anymore but say "brand XYZ" would it change peoples perception of the operation?
              also as i've noticed a lot of all saints "little changes" have mostly been for cost efficiency so they could keep a lower pricepoint on the items. it's the same design just made within their means.

              Comment

              • quiet noise
                Banned
                • Dec 2008
                • 425

                #97
                i havent seen any direct RO/Julius ripoffs from ASS, its not like Rick invented the perfecto or moto leather jacket. Sometimes i think people on this forum forget how much these high end clothes actually cost. You need to realize that most people cant afford to buy a rick owens leather jacket, and thats why brands like All Saints exist. They offer a similiar, fashionable style for 1/10 of the price, wich i think is great. There is absolutely no shame in buying a All Saints leather jacket (that is very similiar to a style from rick owens) if you cant afford the RO jacket. Shouldnt people with small budgets be able to look good too?
                Last edited by quiet noise; 04-15-2011, 05:24 PM.

                Comment

                • gavagai
                  Senior Member
                  • May 2010
                  • 468

                  #98
                  ^

                  Well put and I agree 100%. I wish it wasn't at the expense of a cheap labor force but I think my microwave/Television were made in China.

                  Not my stereo though!

                  Comment

                  • beardown
                    rekoner
                    • Feb 2009
                    • 1418

                    #99
                    Originally posted by couturehomme View Post
                    to me, it's pretty obvious that all this moral high ground nonsense when it comes to ASS or H&M e.t.c. is strictly biased...it is obvious

                    every single product that exists today, that we consume for work or pleasure, is a "copy" of somebody else's work.
                    I get so sick of this point of view. It's easy to generalize but it's completely untrue. I talked about this a little bit in that ethics thread but to me, it seems like a wholly uneducated point of view in terms of knowledge of the past and present.

                    "Nothing's new, everything is stolen or borrowed or a derivative...blah, blah, blah, blah."

                    I usually hear that from people who steal their ideas. I don't agree with the practice and ethically, I would never do it. You cheapen the creative process with this type of thinking and you excuse the process of blatant theft in the process.

                    If nobody is coming up with new/original ideas, then who the fuck is being copied? It's a ridiculous argument.

                    Take the aircut jean design, for example. To my knowledge, it's never been done before in that manner. Naysayers may dig up some old parachute pant or something from the 80s whenever excessive zippers were mandatory but to my knowledge, I've never seen that design.

                    Now, if ASS offered a pant, it would be a stolen idea from an original idea. "What? Pants aren't original because they all have 2 legs?" The aircut is a derivative because it has 2 legs as well? DESIGN-wise and creative-wise, it is a new idea that someone else (hypothetically in this instance) is stealing specifically for profit.

                    During the original design process when Rick was creating it, it was a creative undertaking, one can assume. People still do art and design because they love it and enjoy the process but it's safe to say that anyone who knows anything about Rick's practices knows he isn't specifically in it for the money. I mean, I don't believe the guy even has PR agent. So this is something created initially as part of a vision (rick's line) and stolen/cheapened into something made solely for profits. People don't believe there is something fundamentally wrong with that?

                    Well, just as a reminder, there are people in the world who don't think there's anything fundamentally wrong with war, intentionally collapsing an economy or taking food from the mouths of the starving to give tax breaks to the rich. My point is that we're not exactly living in the most ethical of times. That doesn't make any of it right. People seem like they can justify anything these days as long as the end justifies the means financially. ps: I'm not comparing war to fashion...let's be honest...I'm just suggesting that the times we're in have clouded 'right' vs. 'wrong' in terms of ethics almost across the board.

                    I realize now more than ever theft is tolerated and excused. The internet has made original ideas from the average person non-existent but there are still gifted artists and designers and architects and writers who are doing things that aren't simply recycled ideas. To be honest, the pursuit of that kind of originality is what drives a lot of talented creative people I know. That's the whole challenge in other words. It's rare because it's a difficult process to create something new but it's done...it's just originality isn't nearly as celebrated as much as financial success.

                    Technology is one area that is interesting to me because of constant advancements. Innovation in technology and science isn't new but it does relate to the creative process.

                    People who create original things drive this world in other words, people who steal ideas keep it going because there's a price to pay for innovation that a lot of people don't care to pay: (IE: Why pay for a Rick design when I can wait 2 seasons and get it from ASS?)

                    Nobody is suggesting that Rick created the leather jacket. I'm proposing that the entire spectrum of Rick's line has his fingerprints and personality on it. As a whole, Rick's line is an original offering and identity of his creation. If you dissect it into pieces, you find some derivatives in there. But even creative geniuses may only hit the mark a few times in their careers.


                    But why go through the arduous task of creating something original when people are so encouraged and rewarded for random theft? I talked about this too earlier...we're witnessing an era where most creation is about profits rather than personal satisfaction or fulfillment. Everything is made 'for a market'...everything is born with a price tag...specifically to be sold to some demographic or other.

                    Why suffering the pains of creating something new and original when you have an audience of dolts who just want what is already popular or accepted? I imagine that being a trailblazer is a pretty lonely position to be in because a.) people aren't yet primed for new things and b.) the person who knocks off the idea and improves on it or makes it cheaper is the one who will make the money. Not the brilliant idea guy...the person that figures out a way to produce it in a shitty factory with shitty conditions and shitty wages. Those people are who collect the spoils of the innovators.

                    One last point: Urban Outfitters has always been under the microscope for stealing t-shirt designs from independent designers and small companies. They have literally made millions selling this stuff to the masses and taken ideas from small time designers and taken a chunk of their profits from their idea and put it directly into the Urban Outfitters register.

                    But I'm to believe that's OK because 'nothing is original/everything is a derivative?' Fuck that. Design is about creating new things from nothing. Good designers can do it...it's rare but it happens. Bad designers don't. There's a difference and that part about creating an original idea is a part of that.

                    How does this relate to ASS?

                    Easy. This is a question of ethics and personal scruples.

                    I'm not trying to turn this into something it's not but I choose where I spend my money and a company's ethics do play a fairly big role in how I do it. That's where it begins and ends for me. I don't make a big deal of it, I simply don't spend money at businesses whose ethics and practices I find questionable or suspicious.
                    Originally posted by mizzar
                    Sorry for being kind of a dick to you.

                    Comment

                    • Faust
                      kitsch killer
                      • Sep 2006
                      • 37852

                      Originally posted by messenoire View Post
                      what do you think the difference between all saints and the koreans doing relatively well-made counterfit rick leathers is? do you think if the korean rip-offs were to call themselves a company instead of passing it off as "rick owens" would be more well respected? it's been established that all saints directly rips off rick/julius leathers, so what do you think the major difference between the two are besides allsaints having a name to operate under which the counterfitters still try to pass it off as rick? they're essentially doing the same thing just slightly different ways of doing it. this may be a bit reaching but at which point regarding garments do things stop becoming counterfeit and start becoming "inspired by"?
                      that is the major difference.
                      Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                      StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                      Comment

                      • Faust
                        kitsch killer
                        • Sep 2006
                        • 37852

                        Originally posted by Chilton0326

                        As for Rick's interest in profits? He lives in a mansion. If we know he doesn't have a PR agent, or that he doesn't advertise in Vogue, it's the same as advertising in Vogue, or having a PR agent. His anti-publicity schtick is his publicity, and it's very effective.
                        I find this cynical view intellectually and spiritually impoverishing. You must live in a cold world, buddy.
                        Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                        StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                        Comment

                        • Faust
                          kitsch killer
                          • Sep 2006
                          • 37852

                          CHURCH, beardown. But don't despair - there are different audiences. There is audience enough for the Ricks of this world. Now always, I must say, but often.
                          Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                          StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                          Comment

                          • Letsstayhome
                            Junior Member
                            • Mar 2011
                            • 1

                            Owned/own two items. A leather jacket from 2009 and currently ordered a drop-croth pants priced of 105GBP. Very disappointed with both even without considering myself too fussy and spoiled with Ann D quality. Keeps 1/3 of a a value.

                            Comment

                            • asecretmaker
                              Senior Member
                              • Apr 2011
                              • 109

                              why some people tried to compare rick owens to all saints. totally nonsense.

                              Comment

                              • Arizona
                                Banned
                                • Dec 2010
                                • 14

                                Originally posted by Faust View Post
                                I find this cynical view intellectually and spiritually impoverishing. You must live in a cold world, buddy.
                                he took the time and effort to write a post that is in content relevant and respectful to its recipient, where as you did the opposite. I think it's much colder where you are.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X
                                😀
                                🥰
                                🤢
                                😎
                                😡
                                👍
                                👎