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  • Faust
    kitsch killer
    • Sep 2006
    • 37852

    #76
    Can I just say that I love that you are calling it ASS! I will call it that from now on. Awesome.
    Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

    StyleZeitgeist Magazine

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    • #77
      Originally posted by Faust View Post
      Can I just say that I love that you are calling it ASS! I will call it that from now on. Awesome.
      Thanks) fine to see how it settled on)


      Maybe we should start the thread "what ass are you wearing today"?)

      Comment

      • kunk75
        Banned
        • May 2008
        • 3364

        #78
        julius has almost stitch for stitch knocked off RO on several occasions and charges 4x what as does. Raf remade vandals sans swoosh for 3x as much.
        MMM made trainers that are direct knockoffs of GATS. RO makes DR, Mrtens with a zipper that apparently adds 975 to the cost. No more egregious IMO.

        Comment

        • couturehomme
          Senior Member
          • Oct 2008
          • 162

          #79
          to me, it's pretty obvious that all this moral high ground nonsense when it comes to ASS or H&M e.t.c. is strictly biased...it is obvious

          every single product that exists today, that we consume for work or pleasure, is a "copy" of somebody else's work. Some made the argument with furniture, but the argument can extend to every single product we purchase. You name it, there's copying. I mean, I'm putting in a patio in my backyard, and there's "manufactured" stone to look like the real thing, there's stamped concrete to look like the real thing, there's blatant copying of manufacturer's brick designs. Even funnier, I just went to Walmart last night and saw the "Sam's Club" brand of nutritional shakes right next to the Slimfast brand. lol.

          Copying exists and if you really want to take the "moral highground" and be fair, then it has to extend to everything and then it would just defy logic to do so. I cannot think of a single consumable product that doesn't have a "copy" version that is cheaper and available to buy. As such, fashion should be no different (and it is not different).

          What I gather though, is people here are generally pissed when the copy merchant is appealing to the masses. I believe this is what is driving the bias. As kunk stated above, other designers blatantly rip off other designers, and while they might get some criticism for that one piece, there is no mass hate against the designer and ALL his pieces. Simply because, imo, these designers are really, really niche. So if Julius copies RO, or RO copied HL, or whatever, not really a big deal. Niche market. But when the H&Ms make a copy, it's a big deal.

          No big deal to me either way. Just like when I shop for food, or underwear, or furniture, or computers or whatever, I will try the "authentic" version and will try the "copy". If, imo, the copy is doing the job adequately, then it's all good. If there are some products that I prefer the authentic version, I stick with the authentic.

          fyi, personally, i own no ASS or H&M or whatever clothes. I just find these arguments a bit trivial but still, interesting to hear others' viewpoints.

          Comment

          • lowrey
            ventiundici
            • Dec 2006
            • 8383

            #80
            Originally posted by couturehomme View Post
            every single product that exists today, that we consume for work or pleasure, is a "copy" of somebody else's work. Some made the argument with furniture, but the argument can extend to every single product we purchase. You name it, there's copying. I mean, I'm putting in a patio in my backyard, and there's "manufactured" stone to look like the real thing, there's stamped concrete to look like the real thing, there's blatant copying of manufacturer's brick designs. Even funnier, I just went to Walmart last night and saw the "Sam's Club" brand of nutritional shakes right next to the Slimfast brand. lol.
            well that is most certainly dumbing it down. fake stones? who are they knocking off, god? Nutrition products don't have a visual or aesthetical element, so its pretty pointless to compare these.

            Copying exists and if you really want to take the "moral highground" and be fair, then it has to extend to everything and then it would just defy logic to do so. I cannot think of a single consumable product that doesn't have a "copy" version that is cheaper and available to buy. As such, fashion should be no different (and it is not different).
            Again, you can't group every imagineable product into one. there is nothing personal about how you make for example drugs, which is a huge market for alternatives. or food products, there is no design element as there is in clothing, so can we stick to discussing that?

            What I gather though, is people here are generally pissed when the copy merchant is appealing to the masses. I believe this is what is driving the bias. As kunk stated above, other designers blatantly rip off other designers, and while they might get some criticism for that one piece, there is no mass hate against the designer and ALL his pieces. Simply because, imo, these designers are really, really niche. So if Julius copies RO, or RO copied HL, or whatever, not really a big deal. Niche market. But when the H&Ms make a copy, it's a big deal.

            look, the case of some designers being influenced by others or having similar items might be valid, maybe Horikawa drew influences from Rick Owens who might've borrowed and idea from Lang or some other great designer, but these designers most certainly have a voice of their own and integrity when it comes to designing clothes. a similar item here or there over their lengthy careers most definitely doesn't change that, or would you disagree?

            This, in my book, is why its not comparable to what ASS is doing, creating a fake brand identity based on obvious influences. there isn't much authentic or original about them, and I doubt anyone on SZ would say the same about Julius, RO or most of the other labels discussed here.That is simply what highstreet labels do, and this is why many of us despise them. its not the end of the world, and as it was mentioned they are probably not taking a great deal of customers away from designers any way, but its still annoying to see it happen.
            "AVANT GUARDE HIGHEST FASHION. NOW NOW this is it people, these are the brands no one fucking knows and people are like WTF. they do everything by hand in their freaking secret basement and shit."

            STYLEZEITGEIST MAGAZINE | BLOG

            Comment

            • Johnny
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2006
              • 1923

              #81
              Originally posted by lowrey View Post
              well that is most certainly dumbing it down. fake stones? who are they knocking off, god?
              serious loling

              Comment

              • SHYE_POSER
                Senior Member
                • Mar 2009
                • 1143

                #82
                This argument seems to be ongoing. Its high street, high street stores get inspired by what the see going on during the shows. Its just that they manage to get it on the shop floor in 6 weeks rather than 6 months. TOPSHOP,ZARA,MANGO,ASS STAINS what eva that is their business! It is what they do!
                It gets boring when the same thing gets said.
                Just because ass stains borrows from designers liked on this board does not make them any better or worse then the next high st store.
                Last edited by SHYE_POSER; 04-14-2011, 04:26 PM.
                merz: your look has all the grace of george michael at the tail end of a coke binge.

                Comment

                • Johnny
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2006
                  • 1923

                  #83
                  while there's a point in what ch is saying (copying happens, and it's generally only frowned on when it's high to low level, but looked at as "influence" in certain other cases), he probably takes it too far as lowrey has pointed out.

                  By way of example, what are these things copied from?

                  Comment

                  • Faust
                    kitsch killer
                    • Sep 2006
                    • 37852

                    #84
                    /\ Even better, can these things be copied? No way in hell. The cool thing about Rei is that she makes such out there shit, that no one is even interested in copying it.
                    Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                    StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                    Comment

                    • couturehomme
                      Senior Member
                      • Oct 2008
                      • 162

                      #85
                      you might think i'm taking it too far (probably with the stones....lol), but that is how i see it...

                      whether you are copying somebody's design, or copying somebody's musical style, or copying somebody's chemical formula for a product, or copying an entire product genre, you are still copying and didn't come up with the original idea. Fashion is no different than other industries.

                      I just looked on all saints website and ALL of their items are not blatant rip offs. Actually, not many of them are blatant ripoffs and the items that you can say are "influenced" by other designers, I can literally say the same about a lot of other designer products.

                      So, hypothetically speaking, what if all saints only has a couple items "influenced" by other designers but the rest are all "original" ideas? Would they now be acceptable?

                      Comment

                      • lowrey
                        ventiundici
                        • Dec 2006
                        • 8383

                        #86
                        I'm not big on playing what if this and that... But lets say that if the majority of their garments would be original and interesting, perhaps they would be an entirely different brand and maybe we wouldn't be having this discussion. But thats very far fetched, because the things that they haven't knocked of are for the most part generic high street stuff. Their aesthetic ranges from abercrombie and fitch to Julius and Ann Demeulemeester, both of which they have knocked of directly. I don't know if you've been to their stores, but theres mall jeans next to hipsterish t-shirts next to julius style leather jackets next to formal wear next to old navy button ups. its a mindfuck.
                        "AVANT GUARDE HIGHEST FASHION. NOW NOW this is it people, these are the brands no one fucking knows and people are like WTF. they do everything by hand in their freaking secret basement and shit."

                        STYLEZEITGEIST MAGAZINE | BLOG

                        Comment

                        • BeauIXI
                          Senior Member
                          • Nov 2008
                          • 1272

                          #87
                          WE MAKE AURA NOT CLOTHES
                          Originally posted by philip nod
                          somebody should kop this. this is forever.

                          Comment

                          • SHYE_POSER
                            Senior Member
                            • Mar 2009
                            • 1143

                            #88
                            "Good Artists Borrow, Great Artists Steal"
                            merz: your look has all the grace of george michael at the tail end of a coke binge.

                            Comment

                            • DRRRK
                              Senior Member
                              • Aug 2009
                              • 1195

                              #89

                              Comment

                              • Dane
                                HAMMERTIME
                                • Feb 2011
                                • 3252

                                #90
                                All Saints has no presence here in Canada, but about 10 years ago (possibly more?) they made an attempt to bring their menswear to the masses by moving into department stores with the likes of BCBG (which at the time made men's clothes).

                                Frankly, they went where the money is, just like BCBG. Why waste time thinking of your own ideas when you can just use someone else's?

                                The fact is, 99% of the people buying All Saints leather have no idea it's a borrowed design. At least they're selling it under their own label and not a full-on counterfeit.
                                i traded my LUC jeans + Julius belt + Neil Barrett jeans for a blamain biker jeans

                                Comment

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