Classical Music

[klangspiel]

minimalism is quite a vexed piece of terminology isn't it?
the ease which it supplies as an umbrella concept hasn't been nearly as exciting as the regular recurrence of scholarly antsiness over the inherent difficulties of the term within and without "classical music".

anyway, here's one of my old heroes who has been critically lumped together with the likes of glass, reich, adams, riley, et al. for obvious but perhaps superficial reasons. it's a short clip of what is a daunting and epic piece (usually executed for the duration of 4 to 6 hours, give or take) performed at the se de lisboa but an appropriate one. you get to see the man, colourfully attired, perched by the organ in enveloping darkness followed by a brief shot of the obscurely lit cavernous interior of the grand old lisbon cathedral.

Penderecki

another great piece written for siegfried palm

[josef_k]

I'm so happy that someone mentioned Anton Bruckner. I always found it hard to appreciate romantic music, but late era romanticists I found compelling (dvorák and rimsky-korsakov too).

Could we go back to posting a composer along with some famous works/youtube video? It's easier to keep track on the composers that way I think

[Classique]

Klangspiel - What do you mean by "[U]mbrella concept?"

For the recurrent macabre trend. I recommend, Tôru Takemitsu...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1QwZwYJe92o

:)

[Classique]

Josef - "Just lovely," is such a romantic LOL oxymoron, when used to describe a requiem. ;)

"4:33," and "I am sitting in a room..." Are the: Careless, uninspired, pretentious, principle reasons why modern masterpieces are dismissed as noise or stupidity.

[klangspiel]

Klangspiel - What do you mean by "[u]mbrella concept?"

ever fall in love with julie andrews when you were a pre-pubescent teen whilst tackling the most intricate pages of plato's parmenides? :)

anyway, more uninspired and pretentious noise :)

xenakis - la legende d'eer (his most well-known electronically composed piece)

finnissy - piano concerto #4

kagel - der schall

wyschnegradsky - quarter-tone etude

berio - sequenza

henry - apocalypse de jean

branca - symphony #13

scelsi - uaxuctum (essentially the man all spectralists steal ideas from :))

alkan - scherzo focoso op. 34 (why this man remains in classical music obscurity is utterly beyond me)

ferneyhough - cassandra's dream song

dusapin - etude #4 (damn that ian pace)

grisey - transitoires (spectralist shenanigans #1)

radulescu - clepsydra (spectralist shenanigans #2)

[maldoror]

"4:33," and "I am sitting in a room..." Are the: Careless, uninspired, pretentious, principle reasons why modern masterpieces are dismissed as noise or stupidity.

the ignorance of this statement is simply mind boggling.

my modern classical education was largely under lucier's tutelage, so my opinion is likely equally careless, uninspired, and pretentious, but I can't help but wonder why you'd demonize these two seminal works while simultaneously praising so much contemporary easy listening of the glass, adams, etc. school. --oh, wait. never mind...

+ thanks klang for the wealth of spectralist documents. the aforelinked performance of das andere was especially breath taking. the monday evening concert series at zipper hall is as tempting a reason as any for LA relocation.

[casem]

Bah, they may have lost some of their punch after the fact, but they are both seminal pieces in pushing forward musical possibilities. Just like in art, there's conceptual music where the concept may take precedence over the execution. These pieces are necessary to move the art forward, someone like John Cage, who himself admitted wasn't a very good composer, gave a wealth of ideas that subsequent composers have been exploring. I think there is just as much merit in that as there is in making a beautifully crafted composition that does nothing new.

As for "I am sitting in a room.." and other process music such as Reich's phase pieces may only explore a single idea, setting up a process and letting it run (like winding up a toy and letting it go as Reich has described) but the effect sure is cool as hell to listen to.

On the topic of the term "minimalism" it certainly is a tricky and often misused term. In music at least, minimalism doesn't imply simplicity, 4'33" is definitely not minimalist (it's aleatoric in fact). A far better term to describe minimalist music would be "pattern music". Music that relies on pattern, rhythm, texture over melody and harmony (an idea taken from eastern concepts of music). Unfortunately, the term minimalism already stuck before the much more accurate "pattern music" was concieved, isn't it that way with all art movemements though? Those who are in it are never happy with the name (i know "baroque" was originally an insult for the grotesquely ornate music but it became the accepted term for the period).

That was a rather winding rant that I shan't edit so as to maintain it's stream of consciousness flow in homage to the creatives we are discussing.

Josef - "Just lovely," is such a romantic LOL oxymoron, when used to describe a requiem. ;)

"4:33," and "I am sitting in a room..." Are the: Careless, uninspired, pretentious, principle reasons why modern masterpieces are dismissed as noise or stupidity.

[casem]

Hey hey now, I like to think of Glass as defiantly tonal. At the time he was coming up serialism was all the rage and the only thing accepted by academia. Glass sticking to a couple simple chords was the most radical thing he could do. The guy studied with Nadia Boulanger, I'm sure he could write dissonant music that would take you to the depths of hell, but he didn't see a need for anymore of that music. If you want some more difficult listening from Glass, I challenge you to sit through "Music in Twelve Parts" without going mad.

Adams on the other hand I don't like so much, you can say all you want about him .

the ignorance of this statement is simply mind boggling.

my modern classical education was largely under lucier's tutelage, so my opinion is likely equally careless, uninspired, and pretentious, but I can't help but wonder why you'd demonize these two seminal works while simultaneously praising so much contemporary easy listening of the glass, adams, etc. school. --oh, wait. never mind...

+ thanks klang for the wealth of spectralist documents. the aforelinked performance of das andere was especially breath taking. the monday evening concert series at zipper hall is as tempting a reason as any for LA relocation.

[maldoror]

Hey hey now, I like to think of Glass as defiantly tonal. At the time he was coming up serialism was all the rage and the only thing accepted by academia. Glass sticking to a couple simple chords was the most radical thing he could do. The guy studied with Nadia Boulanger, I'm sure he could right dissonant music that would take you to the depths of hell, but he didn't see a need for anymore of that music. If you want some more difficult listening from Glass, I challenge you to sit through "Music in Twelve Parts" without going mad.

Adams on the other hand I don't like so much, you can say all you want about him .

I saw your response coming and was just about to edit my post for tone/being an asshole, but too late... sorry, sometimes my inner (knee) jerk gets the best of me

that said my principal issue with glass doesn't lie in the impetus of his project, but rather with the vector of his development, especially over the last 20-30 years. to wit, I challenge you to describe the (entirely redundant) compositions of the hours soundtrack as "defiantly tonal" and mean it.

I do find a lot to love throughout glass's back catalog though. the beauty of pieces like opening and mad rush is damn near impossible to deny

[casem]

Hehe, no harm done. I've been ruminating on Glass a lot lately after seeing him in concert and meeting him recently so it gave me a chance to give my thoughts.

I do think he could be accused of too much self imitation in his later years. I often joke about his composing style, like he must sit down and think "hmm, this need more arpeggios.." but like a lot of older icons I think he's trying to please nobody but himself at this point turning out music he enjoys. A more cynical person could say he's cashing in on his signature style turning out the same compositions over and over in much the same way Warhol did in his twilight, but I'm not so cynical.

I actually don't know "The Hours" soundtrack so I can't comment on it.

In honor of Klangspiel and his astounding knowledge of serialist/post-serialist music, I've uploaded a piece to myspace from my short serial phase as an undergrad. It's the 5 piano pieces called: 1. Skyscraper 2. March 3. Murmurs 4. Fragments (my favorite) 5. Falling

Hear them here.

Don't be too harsh, I wrote these as a relatively immature composer obsessed with Webern.

I saw your response coming and was just about to edit my post for tone/being an asshole, but too late... sorry, sometimes my inner (knee) jerk gets the best of me

that said my principal issue with glass doesn't lie in the impetus of his project, but rather with the vector of his development, especially over the last 20-30 years. to wit, I challenge you to describe the (entirely redundant) compositions of the hours soundtrack as "defiantly tonal" and mean it.

I do find a lot to love throughout glass's back catalog though. the beauty of pieces like opening and mad rush is damn near impossible to deny

[Classique]

A deconstruction and reconstruction of my statement; As, my declaration was inarticulate vagueness.

From my experience, recommending classical music; It is presumptuous and dangerous to showcase "4:33," and "I Am Sitting in a Room," etc... as modern [seminal] masterpieces, too early. The reactions I receive by any individual, not proficient in music theory / history, were of negative dismissal: "Careless, uninspired, pretentious." Hence, similar, important / better work, consequent to this, Is rejected; Via those principle reasons as "Noise or stupidity."

Klangspiel's ambitious supplement, to my basic classical recommendations, are more accessible for the general audience not acquainted with the genre.

So, no Maldoror, I personally do not "[D]emonize these two seminal works." My serious mistake was not expressing my love for: Xenakis, Christou, Scelsi, Alkan, Sciarrino, Sorabji...

Bussotti

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NNgTijxuw3I

[AKA*NYC]

saw das rheingold last night at the met. fucking amazing.

[maldoror]

In honor of Klangspiel and his astounding knowledge of serialist/post-serialist music, I've uploaded a piece to myspace from my short serial phase as an undergrad. It's the 5 piano pieces called: 1. Skyscraper 2. March 3. Murmurs 4. Fragments (my favorite) 5. Falling

Hear them here.

Don't be too harsh, I wrote these as a relatively immature composer obsessed with Webern.

looking forward to giving it a listen.

[Classique]

Casem, my computer is not loading the Myspace, music plug-in properly. How unfortunate...

Klangspiel - A concrete definition for "Minimalism," with or without classical music does destroy the mastery of ambitious, grand scale compositional thought and reduces it to a simple but schooled concept. The positive aspects of which reverse the proverb "Too many words with a lackluster / trivial meaning." In classical music, technically a quartet or sonata are a small-scale, minimalist work. Both with roots in antiquity...

The difference is that a modern master killed grandeur concepts, with a transmigration of those exact theories an stripped all unnecessary filler in an attempt to create perfection with a few instruments; Hoping, a future generation can recreate these ideas scored to a full orchestra of any set of traditional or avant-garde instruments.

I think the recurrence of which, is for hope, this progression is in the right direction.

[casem]

Just to keep this thread going:
Ligeti Etudes rock my world. Oh, what I wouldn't do to be able to play them.