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  • Faust
    kitsch killer
    • Sep 2006
    • 37852

    #76
    Originally posted by TINTININBRUSSELS View Post
    it's interchangeable.. To me all those arrangements and collages are artworks in their own right - geographies of the artist's mind. Raf Simons is an artist.
    oh, lord, not that again. look, you may disagree with tricotin, and I often do, but he knows his shit and can back it up.
    Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

    StyleZeitgeist Magazine

    Comment

    • kunk75
      Banned
      • May 2008
      • 3364

      #77
      from a purely financial level, I would really like someone to explain Raf's change in direction. At every store that carries mainline Raf, you can have the pick of the litter at 60% off. His line for Jil has quite a lot of fails but seems a million times better conceived and the tailoring is a lot more pleasing to the eye and touch. I really wish I could buy that this was an artistic decision but never before to my recollection has a designer so completely turned his back on his body of work. Even non-MMM Margiela collections remain truer to the spirit of the label.

      I mean, Raf, season by season, descended into worse and worse collections in a precipitous way, one season worse than the next. S/S 08, whether you liked it or not, seemed to be his last collection with any cohesive idea or ideal.

      Comment

      • TINTININBRUSSELS
        Junior Member
        • Dec 2010
        • 18

        #78
        Apparently, you are not an artist. arguing for the sake of arguing is a pathetic discourse, yet here is a quote by Sterling Ruby for you. sincerely,

        I like to think about art as being similar to poetry: it can’t be proven. It just exists and there’s an aura about it that people get or don’t get. Beauty has to do a lot with that....‘I made Raf’s store in Tokyo, and we are now working on a clothing line, which is something that I’d never thought I would work on. But it’s not just about clothes. It’s a collaboration with somebody who I think is an incredible artist. We’re displacing our roles in the project. Even though I might be perceived as a collaborator on a clothing line, my job is actually: the treatment of fabric. It’s about this sort of critique in the system of fashion. Raf is bringing me in in order to degrade the material, so to speak. I’m bleaching all of this denim. To me bleach has a very significant deterioration factor to it. It’s actually damaging the denim. It’s deconstructing it.’
        Sterling Ruby.

        And have you hear of Bauhaus -where artists actually worked under the same roof?

        Comment

        • TINTININBRUSSELS
          Junior Member
          • Dec 2010
          • 18

          #79
          Originally posted by lowrey View Post
          had, not has. well ok, I guess you could call neoprene gorilla arms as having an impact, but certainly not the right kind.

          people started hating on him when he went from making clothes with a real voice to producing gimmicks and poorly fitting suits.

          The Raf Simons watch / towel / keychain / fail .
          well, Raf hasn't become the official supplier of " fashion week outfits for fashion clowns " like rick owens has.

          Comment

          • lowrey
            ventiundici
            • Dec 2006
            • 8383

            #80
            worst comparison ever. this is about Raf, not Rick Owens.

            Like tricotine already said - you're initial arguments were terrible to begin with and now you are attacking a completely unrelated designer, totally pointless.
            "AVANT GUARDE HIGHEST FASHION. NOW NOW this is it people, these are the brands no one fucking knows and people are like WTF. they do everything by hand in their freaking secret basement and shit."

            STYLEZEITGEIST MAGAZINE | BLOG

            Comment

            • Faust
              kitsch killer
              • Sep 2006
              • 37852

              #81
              TINTIN - you are obviously close to/work with/had worked for Raf. Why don't you tell us something interesting about him that would help us shed some light on Raf's work, instead of defending a lost cause. Members here, including myself, are very respectful of Raf's early work, but to deny that he has run out of steam is futile.

              Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

              StyleZeitgeist Magazine

              Comment

              • TINTININBRUSSELS
                Junior Member
                • Dec 2010
                • 18

                #82
                yes, you can't compare Raf to anybody actually: he doesn't fall into 'if you like this, you might also like this' (if you like Rick, then you might also like Ann demeulemeester, boris bidjan, damir doma) category. If you like Raf 2005, you might not like Raf 2011, more like. Raf doesn't want to be defined.

                Comment

                • kunk75
                  Banned
                  • May 2008
                  • 3364

                  #83
                  his last few collections have been easy to define. feces comes to mind

                  Comment

                  • colin
                    Member
                    • Dec 2006
                    • 36

                    #84
                    raf's army

                    a short film from Dazed paying tribute to 15 years

                    Comment

                    • 525252
                      Senior Member
                      • Dec 2010
                      • 246

                      #85
                      I wish I never saw that beach towel!!

                      but I just wanted to say that I, being someone who hasn't been interested in fashion for as long as others on this board, really really appreciate Raf's new collections much more so than his older ones. I know his collections used to have mountains of references to teen culture, but speaking as a teenager right now, I did not grow up listening to Sonic Youth and can't relate to most of what he was doing back then.

                      Of course he isn't catering to teenage generations of now, but his 2 most recent seasons made me so excited. I can't afford anything from the brand, let alone wear it cause I'm a girl (actually I probably would wear it even still) I love what he is doing with mens wear right now in terms of ideas and aesthetic, I don't know anything about how the clothes feel or wear but I don't think Raf Simons is "out of steam" or a sell out.

                      Comment

                      • Faust
                        kitsch killer
                        • Sep 2006
                        • 37852

                        #86
                        Originally posted by 525252 View Post
                        I wish I never saw that beach towel!!

                        but I just wanted to say that I, being someone who hasn't been interested in fashion for as long as others on this board, really really appreciate Raf's new collections much more so than his older ones. I know his collections used to have mountains of references to teen culture, but speaking as a teenager right now, I did not grow up listening to Sonic Youth and can't relate to most of what he was doing back then.

                        Of course he isn't catering to teenage generations of now, but his 2 most recent seasons made me so excited. I can't afford anything from the brand, let alone wear it cause I'm a girl (actually I probably would wear it even still) I love what he is doing with mens wear right now in terms of ideas and aesthetic, I don't know anything about how the clothes feel or wear but I don't think Raf Simons is "out of steam" or a sell out.
                        But you did.

                        The point is that he references HIS generation, HIS scene. So it came from somewhere inside.
                        Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                        StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                        Comment

                        • 525252
                          Senior Member
                          • Dec 2010
                          • 246

                          #87
                          Originally posted by Faust View Post
                          But you did.

                          The point is that he references HIS generation, HIS scene. So it came from somewhere inside.
                          So the steam he's run out of is of the nostalgic kind?

                          Comment

                          • 525252
                            Senior Member
                            • Dec 2010
                            • 246

                            #88
                            It would have been easier to deny the beach towel was his doing if his name wasn't plastered all over it :(

                            Comment

                            • Faust
                              kitsch killer
                              • Sep 2006
                              • 37852

                              #89
                              Originally posted by 525252 View Post
                              So the steam he's run out of is of the nostalgic kind?
                              I suppose you could say that. He grew up and now he seems to have lost direction. He cannot exactly go back to that, but he has not evolved. We've talked about it in the pages of this thread.
                              Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                              StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                              Comment

                              • 525252
                                Senior Member
                                • Dec 2010
                                • 246

                                #90
                                Originally posted by Faust View Post
                                I suppose you could say that. He grew up and now he seems to have lost direction. He cannot exactly go back to that, but he has not evolved. We've talked about it in the pages of this thread.
                                I've read this entire thread. (The archive images are great by the way)
                                I don't think he has lost direction, its more that his direction has become broader and his way of expressing more subtle.

                                Would anyone care to elaborate on why they think his vision has gone downhill? Or how he has not evolved? "Feces" didn't quite do it for me.

                                Raf Simons may not be an artist, but that comes down entirely to how art is defined (and then art can't/shouldn't be defined)
                                I feel there's been a lot of opinion presented as facts here..

                                Comment

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