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Thread: Raf Simons

  1. #81
    kitsch killer Faust's Avatar
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    TINTIN - you are obviously close to/work with/had worked for Raf. Why don't you tell us something interesting about him that would help us shed some light on Raf's work, instead of defending a lost cause. Members here, including myself, are very respectful of Raf's early work, but to deny that he has run out of steam is futile.

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  2. #82

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    yes, you can't compare Raf to anybody actually: he doesn't fall into 'if you like this, you might also like this' (if you like Rick, then you might also like Ann demeulemeester, boris bidjan, damir doma) category. If you like Raf 2005, you might not like Raf 2011, more like. Raf doesn't want to be defined.

  3. #83

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    his last few collections have been easy to define. feces comes to mind

  4. #84

    Default raf's army

    a short film from Dazed paying tribute to 15 years
    http://www.dazedtv.com/rafs-army/399/page/1

  5. #85

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    I wish I never saw that beach towel!!

    but I just wanted to say that I, being someone who hasn't been interested in fashion for as long as others on this board, really really appreciate Raf's new collections much more so than his older ones. I know his collections used to have mountains of references to teen culture, but speaking as a teenager right now, I did not grow up listening to Sonic Youth and can't relate to most of what he was doing back then.

    Of course he isn't catering to teenage generations of now, but his 2 most recent seasons made me so excited. I can't afford anything from the brand, let alone wear it cause I'm a girl (actually I probably would wear it even still) I love what he is doing with mens wear right now in terms of ideas and aesthetic, I don't know anything about how the clothes feel or wear but I don't think Raf Simons is "out of steam" or a sell out.

  6. #86
    kitsch killer Faust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 525252 View Post
    I wish I never saw that beach towel!!

    but I just wanted to say that I, being someone who hasn't been interested in fashion for as long as others on this board, really really appreciate Raf's new collections much more so than his older ones. I know his collections used to have mountains of references to teen culture, but speaking as a teenager right now, I did not grow up listening to Sonic Youth and can't relate to most of what he was doing back then.

    Of course he isn't catering to teenage generations of now, but his 2 most recent seasons made me so excited. I can't afford anything from the brand, let alone wear it cause I'm a girl (actually I probably would wear it even still) I love what he is doing with mens wear right now in terms of ideas and aesthetic, I don't know anything about how the clothes feel or wear but I don't think Raf Simons is "out of steam" or a sell out.
    But you did.

    The point is that he references HIS generation, HIS scene. So it came from somewhere inside.
    Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

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  7. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by Faust View Post
    But you did.

    The point is that he references HIS generation, HIS scene. So it came from somewhere inside.
    So the steam he's run out of is of the nostalgic kind?

  8. #88

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    It would have been easier to deny the beach towel was his doing if his name wasn't plastered all over it :(

  9. #89
    kitsch killer Faust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 525252 View Post
    So the steam he's run out of is of the nostalgic kind?
    I suppose you could say that. He grew up and now he seems to have lost direction. He cannot exactly go back to that, but he has not evolved. We've talked about it in the pages of this thread.
    Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

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  10. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by Faust View Post
    I suppose you could say that. He grew up and now he seems to have lost direction. He cannot exactly go back to that, but he has not evolved. We've talked about it in the pages of this thread.
    I've read this entire thread. (The archive images are great by the way)
    I don't think he has lost direction, its more that his direction has become broader and his way of expressing more subtle.

    Would anyone care to elaborate on why they think his vision has gone downhill? Or how he has not evolved? "Feces" didn't quite do it for me.

    Raf Simons may not be an artist, but that comes down entirely to how art is defined (and then art can't/shouldn't be defined)
    I feel there's been a lot of opinion presented as facts here..

  11. #91
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    For any artist/ designer there are golden periods when creativity is at its peak - then there is usually a mannered phase where reinvention and repetition of their original ideas are only a mirror of what they used to be. Finally this is usually followed by the decadent phase where they become a caricature of what they originally stood for.

    Very, very rarely can an artist/ designer remain at the cutting edge of their field over an extended period let alone an entire career.

    No one can take away what Raf has contributed to fashion. I am sure he still will make some stunning clothes now and in the future but I feel (my opinion only) that his relevance in leading fashion in new directions is over.

  12. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by cremaster View Post
    For any artist/ designer there are golden periods when creativity is at its peak - then there is usually a mannered phase where reinvention and repetition of their original ideas are only a mirror of what they used to be. Finally this is usually followed by the decadent phase where they become a caricature of what they originally stood for.

    Very, very rarely can an artist/ designer remain at the cutting edge of their field over an extended period let alone an entire career.

    No one can take away what Raf has contributed to fashion. I am sure he still will make some stunning clothes now and in the future but I feel (my opinion only) that his relevance in leading fashion in new directions is over.
    gosh that sounds almost like an eulogy!

    I think my ignorance is most in part to my appreciation of his recent collections.. Not necessarily a bad thing though, right? So here's my naive opinion: I still think he's great now and will continue to be for some time yet. I don't genuinely know what he "stood for" then, so it doesn't really faze me that he's "lost it" now.
    I really do think all his recent collections are inspiring and very relevant, just to a different audience.

  13. #93
    kitsch killer Faust's Avatar
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    I don't understand what is it that you like about these collections? The neoprene gorilla arms? The snaking belts? The huge zippers? Take away all this superfluous things and all you see are a bunch of suits. And when you get to the store, that's exactly what you get - a bunch of suits and dress shirts. Where is the design?
    Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

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  14. #94

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    exactly. Of course, its also a matter of taste, but I don't know how the last 3 or so seasons could be called inspirational in any way.

    plus, the fact that he has been producing all those gimmicks on the side doesn't help either.
    "AVANT GUARDE HIGHEST FASHION. NOW NOW this is it people, these are the brands no one fucking knows and people are like WTF. they do everything by hand in their freaking secret basement and shit."

    STYLEZEITGEIST MAGAZINE | BLOG

  15. #95

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    Hey, its very easy to describe anything in a way that makes it sound stupid and ugly!
    I loved the neoprene sleeves- purely because I hadn't seen neoprene in that context before and it was refreshing. My "fashion" vocabulary is nowhere near as established as most of the people's here, coming from my perspective neoprene was pretty much exclusive to surfers in wetsuits.
    I think its pointless to say the exact details which appealed to me, since thats entirely to individual taste. And it goes without saying that inspiration does not hit everyone the same way. I personally found the last 3 seasons very inspiring.

    What I like about Raf Simons is that there is a spirit to his brand, though it is very different to what it used to be. He overturns paradigms with subtlety. Yes, there are a bunch of suits and dress shirts, and that reels in the people his dialogue is directed to. (Or it could just reel in a lot of money, who knows.)
    I know I'd have similar sentiments if the collections suddenly took on a garish themey Galliano-esque turn. But we don't critisize others for having styles different to our own. Its called diversity.

    There's quite a few interesting quotes in an interview from the current issue of Man About Town magazine, which I'll post here a bit later..

    And we will talk about the towel when we see it on the runway.

  16. #96

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    I think people dismiss Raf now because his clothes are unappealing and lack aesthetic direction. I hated F/W 2009 at first because I didn't understand the concept or inspiration behind it.

    When I learned later that the collection was a social commentary on the banking crisis - men in tailored suits wearing oversized boleros that provided muscle/protection from the outside world, I came to appreciate it it on a conceptual level. Those cut-out sweaters and neoprene boleros are still ridiculous, but it's reassuring to know that he's still inspired by something.

    S/S 09 and S/S 10 is indefensible though. I see where he was going with S/S 11 with those huge skater pants that kids wore in the 90s, but the collection seemed more like a weak attempt at recapturing his glory days.

  17. #97

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    I interpreted the recurrent serpent motifs from SS10 as symbolizing a fall from grace
    www.matthewhk.net

    let me show you a few thangs

  18. #98

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    From Man About Town magazine 7 interview with Raf Simons:

    "In the beginning I wasn't so interested in designing clothes... I was interested in visualising some idea or concept or psychology. That's still, more than anything, what interests me"


    "If I really designed what I wanted to, I don't think it would be appreciated. I put limits on myself because of what society thinks a man should be. Personally I don't know what a man should be. And that's why I'm still interested in fashion."


    "Maybe I accepted the job at Jil Sander to see where my heart lay between the small independent structure and the large corporation...There are certain dreams I cannot realise for my own label because I don't have the structure for it. And at an established house like Jil Sander, you can't afford to be that extreme. It would be counterproductive, which is sometimes the opposite case at a smaller house."


    "If I didn't believe in what I send down the runway and the audience wasn't eager to see it, I would have left fashion a long time ago."

  19. #99

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fade to Black View Post
    I interpreted the recurrent serpent motifs from SS10 as symbolizing a fall from grace
    in exactly 10 years, his cultural references went from Joy Division to Snakes on a Plane.
    "AVANT GUARDE HIGHEST FASHION. NOW NOW this is it people, these are the brands no one fucking knows and people are like WTF. they do everything by hand in their freaking secret basement and shit."

    STYLEZEITGEIST MAGAZINE | BLOG

  20. #100

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    Quote Originally Posted by lowrey View Post
    in exactly 10 years, his cultural references went from Joy Division to Snakes on a Plane.
    I would think the cultural reference was towards the archetypal (even biblical) symbolism that snakes represent.
    Forgive me if I missed the point of a joke.

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