Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Raf Simons

Collapse
This is a sticky topic.
X
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • cremaster
    Senior Member
    • Jan 2010
    • 136

    #91
    For any artist/ designer there are golden periods when creativity is at its peak - then there is usually a mannered phase where reinvention and repetition of their original ideas are only a mirror of what they used to be. Finally this is usually followed by the decadent phase where they become a caricature of what they originally stood for.

    Very, very rarely can an artist/ designer remain at the cutting edge of their field over an extended period let alone an entire career.

    No one can take away what Raf has contributed to fashion. I am sure he still will make some stunning clothes now and in the future but I feel (my opinion only) that his relevance in leading fashion in new directions is over.

    Comment

    • 525252
      Senior Member
      • Dec 2010
      • 246

      #92
      Originally posted by cremaster View Post
      For any artist/ designer there are golden periods when creativity is at its peak - then there is usually a mannered phase where reinvention and repetition of their original ideas are only a mirror of what they used to be. Finally this is usually followed by the decadent phase where they become a caricature of what they originally stood for.

      Very, very rarely can an artist/ designer remain at the cutting edge of their field over an extended period let alone an entire career.

      No one can take away what Raf has contributed to fashion. I am sure he still will make some stunning clothes now and in the future but I feel (my opinion only) that his relevance in leading fashion in new directions is over.
      gosh that sounds almost like an eulogy!

      I think my ignorance is most in part to my appreciation of his recent collections.. Not necessarily a bad thing though, right? So here's my naive opinion: I still think he's great now and will continue to be for some time yet. I don't genuinely know what he "stood for" then, so it doesn't really faze me that he's "lost it" now.
      I really do think all his recent collections are inspiring and very relevant, just to a different audience.

      Comment

      • Faust
        kitsch killer
        • Sep 2006
        • 37852

        #93
        I don't understand what is it that you like about these collections? The neoprene gorilla arms? The snaking belts? The huge zippers? Take away all this superfluous things and all you see are a bunch of suits. And when you get to the store, that's exactly what you get - a bunch of suits and dress shirts. Where is the design?
        Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

        StyleZeitgeist Magazine

        Comment

        • lowrey
          ventiundici
          • Dec 2006
          • 8383

          #94
          exactly. Of course, its also a matter of taste, but I don't know how the last 3 or so seasons could be called inspirational in any way.

          plus, the fact that he has been producing all those gimmicks on the side doesn't help either.
          "AVANT GUARDE HIGHEST FASHION. NOW NOW this is it people, these are the brands no one fucking knows and people are like WTF. they do everything by hand in their freaking secret basement and shit."

          STYLEZEITGEIST MAGAZINE | BLOG

          Comment

          • 525252
            Senior Member
            • Dec 2010
            • 246

            #95
            Hey, its very easy to describe anything in a way that makes it sound stupid and ugly!
            I loved the neoprene sleeves- purely because I hadn't seen neoprene in that context before and it was refreshing. My "fashion" vocabulary is nowhere near as established as most of the people's here, coming from my perspective neoprene was pretty much exclusive to surfers in wetsuits.
            I think its pointless to say the exact details which appealed to me, since thats entirely to individual taste. And it goes without saying that inspiration does not hit everyone the same way. I personally found the last 3 seasons very inspiring.

            What I like about Raf Simons is that there is a spirit to his brand, though it is very different to what it used to be. He overturns paradigms with subtlety. Yes, there are a bunch of suits and dress shirts, and that reels in the people his dialogue is directed to. (Or it could just reel in a lot of money, who knows.)
            I know I'd have similar sentiments if the collections suddenly took on a garish themey Galliano-esque turn. But we don't critisize others for having styles different to our own. Its called diversity.

            There's quite a few interesting quotes in an interview from the current issue of Man About Town magazine, which I'll post here a bit later..

            And we will talk about the towel when we see it on the runway.

            Comment

            • slalom
              Junior Member
              • Sep 2009
              • 24

              #96
              I think people dismiss Raf now because his clothes are unappealing and lack aesthetic direction. I hated F/W 2009 at first because I didn't understand the concept or inspiration behind it.

              When I learned later that the collection was a social commentary on the banking crisis - men in tailored suits wearing oversized boleros that provided muscle/protection from the outside world, I came to appreciate it it on a conceptual level. Those cut-out sweaters and neoprene boleros are still ridiculous, but it's reassuring to know that he's still inspired by something.

              S/S 09 and S/S 10 is indefensible though. I see where he was going with S/S 11 with those huge skater pants that kids wore in the 90s, but the collection seemed more like a weak attempt at recapturing his glory days.

              Comment

              • Fade to Black
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2008
                • 5340

                #97
                I interpreted the recurrent serpent motifs from SS10 as symbolizing a fall from grace
                www.matthewhk.net

                let me show you a few thangs

                Comment

                • 525252
                  Senior Member
                  • Dec 2010
                  • 246

                  #98
                  From Man About Town magazine 7 interview with Raf Simons:

                  "In the beginning I wasn't so interested in designing clothes... I was interested in visualising some idea or concept or psychology. That's still, more than anything, what interests me"


                  "If I really designed what I wanted to, I don't think it would be appreciated. I put limits on myself because of what society thinks a man should be. Personally I don't know what a man should be. And that's why I'm still interested in fashion."


                  "Maybe I accepted the job at Jil Sander to see where my heart lay between the small independent structure and the large corporation...There are certain dreams I cannot realise for my own label because I don't have the structure for it. And at an established house like Jil Sander, you can't afford to be that extreme. It would be counterproductive, which is sometimes the opposite case at a smaller house."


                  "If I didn't believe in what I send down the runway and the audience wasn't eager to see it, I would have left fashion a long time ago."

                  Comment

                  • lowrey
                    ventiundici
                    • Dec 2006
                    • 8383

                    #99
                    Originally posted by Fade to Black View Post
                    I interpreted the recurrent serpent motifs from SS10 as symbolizing a fall from grace
                    in exactly 10 years, his cultural references went from Joy Division to Snakes on a Plane.
                    "AVANT GUARDE HIGHEST FASHION. NOW NOW this is it people, these are the brands no one fucking knows and people are like WTF. they do everything by hand in their freaking secret basement and shit."

                    STYLEZEITGEIST MAGAZINE | BLOG

                    Comment

                    • 525252
                      Senior Member
                      • Dec 2010
                      • 246

                      Originally posted by lowrey View Post
                      in exactly 10 years, his cultural references went from Joy Division to Snakes on a Plane.
                      I would think the cultural reference was towards the archetypal (even biblical) symbolism that snakes represent.
                      Forgive me if I missed the point of a joke.

                      Comment

                      • Matis
                        Member
                        • Feb 2010
                        • 79





                        5252 You need to understand that these are old dogs here who admired Raf in his golden age. As you already stated you didnt grow up listening to JD, same as me.
                        I think that if you look the whole raf evolution going from early cuts, strong politcal and cultural references to gorillas, snakes towels; you see the downfall, you just cant deny it.
                        The refernece to the subculture in past collections is now gone.
                        He still pulls off some interesting things on his and Jil label that i buy on sale. But as Faust stated those are just nice pants, shirts.
                        Talking about clean and geo lines you cant go wrong with contemporary raf.

                        The magic is lost.

                        Comment

                        • Fade to Black
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2008
                          • 5340

                          Originally posted by 525252 View Post
                          I would think the cultural reference was towards the archetypal (even biblical) symbolism that snakes represent.
                          Forgive me if I missed the point of a joke.
                          it wasn't a joke exactly; I did sense the biblical reference when I first saw it - it was unlike anything that came before in Raf's oeuvre, just at a time when his whole operation was taking a drastic turn into the Purple Label-esque suiting and all...maybe he's conflicted between the need to expand, a sort of creative and personal stagnancy and yet defiance to the growing backlash among certain niche demographics that used to live by his work that I'm sure he's aware of on some level.

                          He went from Joy Division to Kanye West, basically. And I like Kanye.
                          www.matthewhk.net

                          let me show you a few thangs

                          Comment

                          • Faust
                            kitsch killer
                            • Sep 2006
                            • 37852

                            Get these motherfucking snakes off this motherfucking plane!!!
                            Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                            StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                            Comment

                            • 525252
                              Senior Member
                              • Dec 2010
                              • 246

                              Fade, that wasn't directed at you, I know what you meant :)

                              Also, am I missing something about the "gorilla" neoprene arms? Its only here that they're being referred to as that, I mean, was it genuinely a reference to gorillas?

                              It can't be denied that Raf Simons is different, but it can (and will) be denied that he's undergone "downfall". Sorry to be so persistent, but really, if gorillas and Samuel L Jackson are what is evoked in your mind when you look at SS10, then thats unfortunate for you.
                              Honestly, I think Raf's current collections have more relevance to social values rather than cultural.

                              And fine, we'll all bag out Raf Simons for generating money from a black towel to fund his buisness and losing all his integrity cause what he should be doing instead is generating money from clothing that not many people want to buy because only a small niche actually buy that stuff, so tut tut Raf for selling out! Give him a slap on the ass and let him go.

                              No seriously, we'll talk about the towel if it ever appears on the runway.

                              Comment

                              • 525252
                                Senior Member
                                • Dec 2010
                                • 246

                                Well, the piss is pretty great.
                                Here's a paper doll I made in honor of this thread.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X
                                😀
                                🥰
                                🤢
                                😎
                                😡
                                👍
                                👎