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  • beardown
    rekoner
    • Feb 2009
    • 1418

    OK, so government = Obama.

    Got it.

    Might as well use this opportunity to learn about how a bill becomes law:

    "The Credit Cardholders' Bill of Rights was introduced in the 110th Congress as H.R. 5244 in the House of Representatives by Representative Carolyn Maloney, a Democrat from New York and the chair of the House Financial Services Committee's Subcommittee on Financial Institutions and Consumer Credit. The bill had passed 312 to 112 but was never given a vote in the Senate.
    In the 111th United States Congress the bill was reintroduced as H.R. 627 and on April 30, 2009, the House passed it, with a strong bipartisan basis, with 357 yes votes to 70 no votes. The Senate followed suit and passed an amended version on May 19 with 90 yes votes and 5 no votes.[2] The House passed the amended bill the next day by a vote of 279 to 147 and it was signed into law by President Barack Obama on May 22, 2009.
    The bill went into effect on February 22, 2010, nine months after it was enacted."


    Proposed by a member of the House of Representatives, voted for an passed in the House and the Senate with overwhelming bipartisan support (those are all your representatives, by the way) and then signed by the president.
    Had Obama vetoed the bill, congress could have easily gathered the votes to override it in the house.

    And actually, all of the guidelines of the bill were set by the Board of Governors from the Federal Reserve, which isn't even a branch of the government, oddly enough.

    If you want the facts read up on it from the Library of Congress here.

    Your gripe is with Paypal, my friend. Not with Obama. Let's all learn to appreciate the limitations of the federal government and the POTA.
    Paypal has been freezing accounts and taking money from people for a decade....LONG before any kind of credit card regulation was proposed in Congress.
    Originally posted by mizzar
    Sorry for being kind of a dick to you.

    Comment

    • lowrey
      ventiundici
      • Dec 2006
      • 8383

      couple of strange things I encountered today.

      I was sending a personal payment of which half was paypal balance, half from credit card. Personal payments from existing balance should be free of fees, but apparently if any part of it is from a CC, Paypal sees is as appropriate to take 3.5% from the entire amount.

      so for example if I'm sending a gift payment of $1000 and have $500 on my paypal account, I get charged a fee of $35. if I send $500 from my account and then send a separate payment of $500 which goes from my credit card, the fees for the entire transaction is $17.50. easy way to steal money from users who don't happen to notice?

      so I ended up sending it in two parts, but still the first part coming from existing Paypal balance incurred a 1% fee, even though its clearly stated that it should be free?
      "AVANT GUARDE HIGHEST FASHION. NOW NOW this is it people, these are the brands no one fucking knows and people are like WTF. they do everything by hand in their freaking secret basement and shit."

      STYLEZEITGEIST MAGAZINE | BLOG

      Comment

      • ardeetee
        Senior Member
        • Apr 2007
        • 399

        ^i bet most ppl wouldn't even notice, definitely good to know though.

        for the 1% fee, were you sending it to another country? I think there was some 'international transaction fee' around 1%

        Comment

        • lowrey
          ventiundici
          • Dec 2006
          • 8383

          yea, I wouldn't have noticed unless I knew almost exactly 1/2 was coming from balance, so I started to wonder why the fee seemed large.

          the payment was to an overseas account, so that might be the case with the 1%. is it a new fee? I don't recall seeing that before, not sure though.
          "AVANT GUARDE HIGHEST FASHION. NOW NOW this is it people, these are the brands no one fucking knows and people are like WTF. they do everything by hand in their freaking secret basement and shit."

          STYLEZEITGEIST MAGAZINE | BLOG

          Comment

          • diorowen
            Senior Member
            • Aug 2010
            • 415

            got problem with buyer this time..I'm a seller, and selling things, which is brand new, just got it and I just tried once for like 20 mins. but the buyer now claim that the item is not brand new, coz it has a wrinkle and a bit crease behind the knee,coz the pants was too small for me, thats why I sell it, and when I tried it, its obviously create a bit of crease.. well I gave him all the info I can, photos etc before selling it, and now he still asking for refund coz the item is not brand new...
            anyway I can win in the paypal claim?
            still trapped in my juvenile state

            Comment

            • lowrey
              ventiundici
              • Dec 2006
              • 8383

              if a buyer files a claim like this, paypal first requires an explanation, then a written statement from a third party, such as a retailer, stating that the item is not as described. so unless the buyer actually manages to convince someone to write a statement like this or fakes one, in theory you should win the claim.

              however, these things seem to really depend on luck more than anything, and what kind of an idiot is handling it at paypal.
              "AVANT GUARDE HIGHEST FASHION. NOW NOW this is it people, these are the brands no one fucking knows and people are like WTF. they do everything by hand in their freaking secret basement and shit."

              STYLEZEITGEIST MAGAZINE | BLOG

              Comment

              • couturehomme
                Senior Member
                • Oct 2008
                • 162

                technically, paypal only requires the third party statement if the buyer claims the item is not authentic....

                if the buyer just claims something like "not as advertised" or "not in good condition" or simply "i don't like it', paypal doesn't require any proof of anything..

                the best case for you is to tell the buyer you will accept the return but that they will have to pay return shipping (they will still have to pay it if it goes to a paypal claim)...

                this way, you can refund the original transaction without loss of paypal fees; cause if you let the buyer file a claim, you will lose those fees


                this is the nature of doing business online...you have to suck it up and accept a small loss (shipping) rather than a bigger loss (shipping + paypal fees + angry buyer returning something else or damaged product)...

                it is best to just be very nice and don't dispute what is said, whether it is the truth or not....just say you'll be happy to accept the return..

                Comment

                • ironman
                  Senior Member
                  • Apr 2008
                  • 829

                  couturehomme is correct on all counts.

                  the third party thing is essentially for authenticity claims. i have just gone through a very bad transaction where the buyer claimed boots i sold were dirtier than i stated and had pictures of, and PayPal just sided with them requiring no proof or even asking for further explanation.

                  he made wild claims that he expected them to be black despite them being blue in both listing details and images. it doesn't matter to them. you should do as couturehomme said and just cave and accept the return. if you don't you will likely lose the claim and not get fees back.

                  i called in and complained and they refunded my fees, at which point they explained their reasoning for the decision. apparently they don't give a flying fuck about what actually transpired because they think it is a fair resolution. the buyer gets his money back, and you get another chance to sell the item to recuperate

                  on a related note it makes no difference if you put "no returns accepted" on an eBay listing. and despite section 13.6 of PPs user agreement outlining cases where SNAD claims are invalid, they will basically allow any claims with decisions following no rational logic

                  oh how i wish there was an alternative to PayPal. while i have completed some transactions using Interac Web Money Transfer between Canadians and bank wire transfers for international transactions, it is understandable that not many are willing to go that route to pay

                  Comment

                  • diorowen
                    Senior Member
                    • Aug 2010
                    • 415

                    sigh, quite sad..in the end he agreed to received partial refund and keep the item..=_=..after lowballing me, didn't pay the 4% fees,I'm being nice by paying half of the shipping so that he can receive it faster and now he did this to me..gosh..
                    thanks for the input lowrey, couturehomme, and iron boy!
                    you guys are the best :)
                    oh well. live is always unfair..
                    still trapped in my juvenile state

                    Comment

                    • lowrey
                      ventiundici
                      • Dec 2006
                      • 8383

                      Originally posted by couturehomme View Post
                      technically, paypal only requires the third party statement if the buyer claims the item is not authentic....
                      tell that to paypal. I was specifically requested this when I filed a claim for "item not as described".

                      Originally posted by diorowen View Post
                      sigh, quite sad..in the end he agreed to received partial refund and keep the item..=_=..after lowballing me, didn't pay the 4% fees,I'm being nice by paying half of the shipping so that he can receive it faster and now he did this to me..gosh..
                      thanks for the input lowrey, couturehomme, and iron boy!
                      you guys are the best :)
                      was this on ebay? if so, wait for the last minute to leave negative feedback
                      "AVANT GUARDE HIGHEST FASHION. NOW NOW this is it people, these are the brands no one fucking knows and people are like WTF. they do everything by hand in their freaking secret basement and shit."

                      STYLEZEITGEIST MAGAZINE | BLOG

                      Comment

                      • diorowen
                        Senior Member
                        • Aug 2010
                        • 415

                        ^
                        nah, thats for my julius ma ss10 twisted pants, my personal transaction in superfuture..:(..
                        really hard to get a fair treat for both buyer and seller..
                        and he happily said thanks to me in sufu..haha..I feel scammed in a very stupid way..
                        still trapped in my juvenile state

                        Comment

                        • stadsvandringar
                          Senior Member
                          • Aug 2008
                          • 217

                          Would paypal even consider ruling on a non-ebay transaction like that? Just curious for my own information... I thought they didn't get quite as involved when you were not using ebay. I'm sure the buyer could open a credit card dispute or something, but it is probably harder trying to get away with the "not as described" line.

                          On a related note I sold a jacket on ebay a few weeks ago. The seller tried to say that it was not as described because it was "dirtier" than my description stated and demanded a refund of $30 or to return the item. I basically told him no. Happily he didn't open a dispute in this case. Sometimes things work out, but it seems like a lot of people are exploiting this loophole in ebay.

                          Comment

                          • diorowen
                            Senior Member
                            • Aug 2010
                            • 415

                            Originally posted by stadsvandringar View Post
                            Would paypal even consider ruling on a non-ebay transaction like that? Just curious for my own information... I thought they didn't get quite as involved when you were not using ebay. I'm sure the buyer could open a credit card dispute or something, but it is probably harder trying to get away with the "not as described" line.

                            On a related note I sold a jacket on ebay a few weeks ago. The buyer tried to say that it was not as described because it was "dirtier" than my description stated and demanded a refund of $30 or to return the item. I basically told him no. Happily he didn't open a dispute in this case. Sometimes things work out, but it seems like a lot of people are exploiting this loophole in ebay.
                            oh well..I just pissed because the thing that I sold is basically brand new, not even dirty. He said its wrinkled..maybe because I tried it once and I fold it to make the shipping cost cheaper..and because its wrinkled he said its not brand new..wtf?..if he was next to me I would throw him a steam iron, and tell him human has actually invent something like this so that you can take away any sort of wrinkle..
                            and he blackmailed me by saying he will open a dispute in paypal..well I told him I'm not scared, then on the next message he said he doesn't want to make a problem..and we resolve it by partial refund..
                            and yeah, I'm not a good business man..I cant afford to accept return, since I got a bad experience about returning thing. a girl bought a phone from me, and after I sent the phone in good condition, she said its not working, then I feel guilty and accept a return, coz I think maybe because I send the phone using airmail, and the phone just damaged somehow..but when I received the phone back. its damaged=_=..and in a very bad condition, as if she's trying to fuck the phone and the phone die..moreover, I cant claim anything to paypal..case closed..luckily I got a friend who know about phone and can fix this..then just need to buy new body..
                            still trapped in my juvenile state

                            Comment

                            • treasurehoard
                              Senior Member
                              • Dec 2009
                              • 98

                              Originally posted by stadsvandringar View Post
                              Would paypal even consider ruling on a non-ebay transaction like that? Just curious for my own information... I thought they didn't get quite as involved when you were not using ebay. I'm sure the buyer could open a credit card dispute or something, but it is probably harder trying to get away with the "not as described" line.
                              On transactions outside of eBay they don't offer protection on items not as described, only not received. If he filed they would have closed the dispute as soon as he upgraded to a claim.

                              However as you mentioned he could just dispute it with his credit card next if he paid that way.

                              If it was on eBay it would be a different story. They would probably make you refund even if the buyer just said he no longer wanted the item. For the most part they only request letters for authenticity but in some cases they do want 3rd party verification that an item has been damaged or is not accurately described.

                              Really shouldn't be an issue over a wrinkle though. That could have occurred by folding the item in shipping. Buyer probably already got a great deal on those pants and wanted a better one.

                              Comment

                              • diorowen
                                Senior Member
                                • Aug 2010
                                • 415

                                ^
                                yeah..maybe thats why he doesnt dare to bring it up to paypal claim..since he received the item..haha..just remind me to iron the clothes well before send it..
                                still trapped in my juvenile state

                                Comment

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