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Thread: The pricing is crazy/justified thread

  1. #81

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    Quote Originally Posted by Torchiere View Post
    This is true. These days people are always looking for a "good deal" so (most) of them wait till the sale season to make their purchases. They think they're getting a good deal since it's 60% off or whatever. But in fact most consumers don't know the true monetary value of the items they buy, so that items they just bought might actually only cost the retailer a fraction of the sale price.

    Retailers know this and can use it to their advantage. They can mark up the retail price so when it goes on sale, they will still profit from it. If the rich dudes buy at retail, then good for them, but if they don't, they can put them on sale to attract more buyers while still make a profit.

    Of course there will be a threshold, say a $50k whale penis leather jacket gets discounted to say $15k, even with potential saving of $35k, a lot of them will still be unable to afford it or cannot justify the price. The trick then is to experiment with that threshold.

    This is a very simplified scenario so you would have to factor in competition and consider the statistics of buyers at retail, buyers at discount, etc and do the math.

    The consumers may actually have started this trend of deal-hunting but lost the game while suppliers exploit it.
    It sounds like you're toying with the idea of a cartel here. I think Hobo said in one of the threads a couple of months ago that stores that sell these designers watch each other pretty carefully. Now, especially with the internet, it's easy to see what stores are charging in comparison to their competitors.

    Retailers aren't the only ones who do this; customers do it everyday ("The Archive has the Samurai coat for 25% off; it's still full price at RO NY"). If one store marks an item up, the store will be selling it for far more than its competitors and will not sell that particular piece. For all these small stores to do that, they would have to collaborate with each other and basically all agree to do that. Then you think about game theory (you can probably tell I don't study Economics; I just know very basic principles, and not even very well, so pardon if there are holes).

    In short I don't think these small stores have the ability to do that or would take such a large risk. Unlike a department store, one or two bad seasons of sales could kill a boutique.
    An artist is not paid for his labor, but for his vision. - James Whistler

    Quote Originally Posted by BBSCCP View Post
    I order 1 in every size, please, for every occasion

  2. #82

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post
    Oh and bespoke shoes start at around 3K and can command a much higher price so a variety of people do buy 3K+ shoes.
    A good pair of lobb oxford boots still runs 3500 pounds + trees.
    Hobo: We all dress up. We all put on our armour before we walk out the door, but that doesn’t necessarily mean that we’re trying to be someone else.

  3. #83

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    Quote Originally Posted by SombreResplendence View Post
    In short I don't think these small stores have the ability to do that or would take such a large risk. Unlike a department store, one or two bad seasons of sales could kill a boutique.
    I agree, big stores definitely have an easier time doing it. I'm just saying that in general, this can be done in theory. But then with the internet, you can do a price check on an item half the globe away, so it's getting more difficult too.

  4. #84

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    A what about Rick Owens leather jackets. There never seems to be the same jacket for sale antoneli or luisaviaroma and the corner. I know rick owens restricts who can sell his clothes in a certain city, almost like car dealerships, but would a similar thing be happening online, where by one online store agrees not to carry the same items as another?

  5. #85

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    Quote Originally Posted by AZH View Post
    pierce, I understand what you say. Personally, I do not think CCP's suit is worth the charged price, and I have been here for two years, so far I cant recall anybody who wears CCP suit extremely well in the wywt thread too.

    I like CCP's leather goods though, especially the footwears. I have a pair of CCP boots from 07FW. I love them. The leather is just unbelievably thick, and they soften down as they got more worn.

    I want to say one of the reasons why people want to buy CCP and MA+ even though they are charging very high prices, is that there is a big second hand market behind them. And the second hand price is still very high. Like me, I paid around $1800USD for the CCP boots 2 years ago, I wear them almost everyday. I believe they would get sold at least $1200USD now if I put them in the market. At least that was one of the reasons convinced me to buy a pair of boots with such a high price.

    This situation reminds me of that in women's world, they like to buy LV hand bags. If you ask them why you spend tons of money on LV hand bags, they would say because everyone has one, and when you are tired of the bags, you can sell them to recover most of the money you spent on them. Then you move on to buy a new LV hand bag.
    I kinda agree with the point on the second hand market. I think this also to some extent explains why brands like Comme, YY aren't as well loved as CCP or MA+ here, because if you put them up on the market you stand to lose up to 70% of your initial 'investment' which is generally not the case with CCP items. But then again, one could certainly in turn raise the question as to why the second hand prices remain high for these items, and I think this will go back to the initial supply/demand proposition...

  6. #86

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    Quote Originally Posted by pierce View Post
    A what about Rick Owens leather jackets. There never seems to be the same jacket for sale antoneli or luisaviaroma and the corner. I know rick owens restricts who can sell his clothes in a certain city, almost like car dealerships, but would a similar thing be happening online, where by one online store agrees not to carry the same items as another?
    Actually scrap that question, I don't have the time or inclination to start thinking about it. Same goes for the ma+ and cpp being more popular because of the second hand market. Ignorance is bliss :)

  7. #87

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    Quote Originally Posted by endorphinz View Post
    the old adage:"if you have to ask how much something costs, you can't afford it" ...the labels being discussed are not meant for "ordinary folk" blah blah blah...

    Aah, and another sweeping generalization from an outsider looking in. You have little clue what actually goes down so you're left to go off assumptions and adages–neither of which make you sound as bright as you probably are.

    endorphinz, there is something called a middle ground. A lot of people I know, including many of the people on this forum, are able to own these labels based on 2 major factors: 1. they're not making frequent expenditures on lower to mid-range brands like Diesel, A&F, Kenneth Cole, etc (like the vast majority of people do, both male and female). Instead, they'll pool their cash for a while until they can drop it on one great piece–that will likely stay in their possession for a lot longer than anything found at the mall. It's a matter of having one stellar blazer/coat/boot whatever, over 3-4 that add up to the same amount in cost, but never character.

    And 2. you're making the assumption that everything is acquired for full retail price, which is the case maybe half the time, if that. When people aren't making bank, they still find ways to get things they want. Between online auctions like eBay, SZ & SuFu classifieds (let one thing go, acquire another) store sales, etc, they're kopping their shit at a price that they're able to swing, even if it means letting the electric bill double over. Full retail purchases often go on credit cards, get paid down, then get jacked back up. If they work in the industry, they get discounts deep enough to make you cry, or they receive gratis. Though there are plenty of exceptions, if you were to peer into a many of their closets, you'd find that they're half as full as you might expect–though when you did the math, your mind would be blown.

    No one I know is dropping 20K on shopping sprees, but I've dressed many people who have such budgets, and you know what the common thread, no pun intended, running between each of them is? They more often than not look contrived due to a painfully obvious lack of sincerity, which no amount of money can fake. I've found that those who appreciate artisanal/niche clothing the most are those who can afford it the least.

    Just goes to show that money and style are mutually exclusive. Most everyone here already knows it. The rest are throwing around assumptions and adages because they don't have anything else to go by.

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  8. #88

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    Interest1, can I just say that your above explanation NEEDS to be put in a thread for noobies because after hanging around this forum for a few months now, I can see how essential this outlook is to understanding the overall attitude of SZ. I myself used to sell luxury brand women's shoes and while most of those brands would not be discussed on here, the same principle applied; plenty of young people or those on a lesser income saving their pennies and placing a pair on layby that would be their only new pair for the season ahead. These are also the same people who run to the sale rack to see if their favourite pair they have been eyeing off all season have been reduced and evidently they snatch up the bargains. Designer brands are by no means unattainable no matter what your income, you just have to want them enough and be prepared to do your homework on how to purchase them at the best price.

    Sorry, this is a really long post for a first one, but I was very much inspired by Interest1's response.

  9. #89

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    I am surprised, with the amount of people who take reselling value as a factor when they buy clothes...

  10. #90

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    Quote Originally Posted by fenrost View Post
    I am surprised, with the amount of people who take reselling value as a factor when they buy clothes...
    I am not surprised though. It actually tells you that most of us are not super rich, we are just average people. We do care if we spend $2000USD for a pair of shoes, how much can we recover when we decide not to wear them anymore.

  11. #91

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    fair enough.

    i am not rich either. but for me when i buy clothes like ccps i have begin to re-assess if i need them in my wardrobe, permanently.. if not long term, and will wear them enough.. reselling them is probably the last thing i will have in my mind.
    Last edited by fenrost; 02-23-2010 at 04:32 AM. Reason: ++

  12. #92

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    Quote Originally Posted by underground lover View Post
    Interest1, can I just say that your above explanation NEEDS to be put in a thread for noobies because after hanging around this forum for a few months now, I can see how essential this outlook is to understanding the overall attitude of SZ.
    +1

    a lot of the generalized criticisms and barbs i see hurled at SZ from elsewhere seemed to be unfounded ignorance at first, but i'm beginning to get the impression that this "SZ" has become more of a symbolic target for misguided, superfluous and overflowing aggression from types who are not so much antagonistic against the actual body here as they are just plain frustrated people.
    www.matthewhk.net

    let me show you a few thangs

  13. #93

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    It's funny, every now and again we get threads like how do you guys afford this shit?
    let us raise a toast to ancient cotton, rotten voile, gloomy silk, slick carf, decayed goat, inflamed ram, sooty nelton, stifling silk, lazy sheep, bone-dry broad & skinny baffalo.

  14. #94

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    /\ 2 up


    FTB– Ha, I had essentially this same discussion with someone in a PM earlier. "Underlying issues" came up. Fascinating from a psychological standpoint.
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  15. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post
    I don't. Consumers of the pricier end of luxury goods are from the wealthier classes of society, those puritan clichés may sound good to you but this shit does not stand up to scrutiny. This is also true of Bentleys, luxury yachts, expensive art, designer furniture, lavish houses etc etc. The moneyed class does spend a lot on luxury and this drives aspirational consumption. Now people who buy MA+ may, in a large part, belong to the less wealthy cultural (rather than economic) elites but that doesn't mean that they're by any mean poor. The distinction provided appears to be worth it for them as MA+ is doing quite well. Keep in mind that affirming their supposed independence from the rich but boorish economic elites is done through tasteful consumption and the brands we discuss may fall into that category for certain buyers.

    Oh and bespoke shoes start at around 3K and can command a much higher price so a variety of people do buy 3K+ shoes.
    Bingo. Bourgeoisie is not defined as a class by the amount of money its members have, but by their societal values and cultural taste.
    Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fuuma View Post
    It is precisely the conspicuous art consumption of private collectors that is pricing museums out of the market. They rely on gift from generous donors (often collectors themselves) and only have the budget for a few well-targeted acquisitions anyway.

    If rich dudes didn't want to show off you'd actually have MORE interesting recent pieces in museums, all things considered.
    Correct again. Everyone should watch this documentary, which includes interviews with museum directors from the met and moma where they complain that they are priced out of the market by private collectors.
    Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

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    Quote Originally Posted by interest1 View Post
    endorphinz, there is something called a middle ground. A lot of people I know, including many of the people on this forum, are able to own these labels based on 2 major factors: 1. they're not making frequent expenditures on lower to mid-range brands like Diesel, A&F, Kenneth Cole, etc (like the vast majority of people do, both male and female). Instead, they'll pool their cash for a while until they can drop it on one great piece–that will likely stay in their possession for a lot longer than anything found at the mall. It's a matter of having one stellar blazer/coat/boot whatever, over 3-4 that add up to the same amount in cost, but never character.

    And 2. you're making the assumption that everything is acquired for full retail price, which is the case maybe half the time, if that. When people aren't making bank, they still find ways to get things they want. Between online auctions like eBay, SZ & SuFu classifieds (let one thing go, acquire another) store sales, etc, they're kopping their shit at a price that they're able to swing, even if it means letting the electric bill double over. Full retail purchases often go on credit cards, get paid down, then get jacked back up. If they work in the industry, they get discounts deep enough to make you cry, or they receive gratis. Though there are plenty of exceptions, if you were to peer into a many of their closets, you'd find that they're half as full as you might expect–though when you did the math, your mind would be blown.

    No one I know is dropping 20K on shopping sprees, but I've dressed many people who have such budgets, and you know what the common thread, no pun intended, running between each of them is? They more often than not look contrived due to a painfully obvious lack of sincerity, which no amount of money can fake. I've found that those who appreciate artisanal/niche clothing the most are those who can afford it the least.

    Just goes to show that money and style are mutually exclusive. Most everyone here already knows it. The rest are throwing around assumptions and adages because they don't have anything else to go by.

    .
    without going line for line, this is a synopsis of your post:

    we dig this shit, don't buy other shit, save our $$$ and look for great deals so we can buy this shit and love it long time.

    got no prob with your analysis. HOWEVER, it doesn't address the OP's topic. the thread is about insane pricing.

    i actually agree with what you said. i'm an old dude that's been involved im men's wear for eons...well was involved eons ago.
    i have pieces in my closet for 30 years...pieces i sacrificed my soul for..my fav black blazer is a 30 year old wool crepe vintage Armani from his first us collection. (been "restored" twice)....got shoes and boots that are over 25 years old that, given inflation, were in the price ranges we are speaking of.

    no "fashion passion" lectures needed here.

    no one is claiming $$$ =style but $$$$ is supporting these manufactures and retail outlets. SOMEONE is paying full retail. Atelier,Barney's et al are not covering their nut by waiting for szers to buy an occasional piece @40% off.

    fuck, i've been in Barney's and watched salespeople stick their noses up the ass of someone who did just drop 20k....and that's cool. if ya got it, spend it. imo, these are the people that ultimately support these labels and support the insane pricing

    you mention unpaid electric bills and mounting cc debt....those are the sacrifices i speak of....again, very cool...just said that i hope theses sacrifices are worth it....there has to be a fine line somewhere, no?

    i maintain that the price structure on these l33t brands is almost completely artificial. yes, quality fabrics, trimmings and workmanship are involved but....................give me a fuckin' break.

    designers wanna get paid for their "artistic vision"?.....again cool but that number is quite subjective and can only be validated and sustained by supply and demand..which brings me back to my initial point.

    peeps saving for months and buying shit @40% off can't possibly supply the demand that keeps these brands afloat

    just my opinion..your mileage may vary.

  18. #98
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    Interest1, thank you for your passionate, insightful posts. Best of SZ indeed and makes me proud to have contributors like you.
    Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

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  19. #99
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    endorphinz - what's the point of this, really? ok, even if you are right, and designers are equivalent to washing machine manufacturers and wall street bankers, what is the logical end of your rant?
    Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

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    i got no rant. i'm just addressing the OT..sheeeeeeeesh

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