The pricing is crazy/justified thread

[fenrost]

fair enough.

i am not rich either. but for me when i buy clothes like ccps i have begin to re-assess if i need them in my wardrobe, permanently.. if not long term, and will wear them enough.. reselling them is probably the last thing i will have in my mind.

[Fade to Black]

Interest1, can I just say that your above explanation NEEDS to be put in a thread for noobies because after hanging around this forum for a few months now, I can see how essential this outlook is to understanding the overall attitude of SZ.

+1

a lot of the generalized criticisms and barbs i see hurled at SZ from elsewhere seemed to be unfounded ignorance at first, but i'm beginning to get the impression that this "SZ" has become more of a symbolic target for misguided, superfluous and overflowing aggression from types who are not so much antagonistic against the actual body here as they are just plain frustrated people.

[Avantster]

It's funny, every now and again we get threads like how do you guys afford this shit?

[interest1]

/\ 2 up


FTB– Ha, I had essentially this same discussion with someone in a PM earlier. "Underlying issues" came up. Fascinating from a psychological standpoint.

[Faust]

I don't. Consumers of the pricier end of luxury goods are from the wealthier classes of society, those puritan clichés may sound good to you but this shit does not stand up to scrutiny. This is also true of Bentleys, luxury yachts, expensive art, designer furniture, lavish houses etc etc. The moneyed class does spend a lot on luxury and this drives aspirational consumption. Now people who buy MA+ may, in a large part, belong to the less wealthy cultural (rather than economic) elites but that doesn't mean that they're by any mean poor. The distinction provided appears to be worth it for them as MA+ is doing quite well. Keep in mind that affirming their supposed independence from the rich but boorish economic elites is done through tasteful consumption and the brands we discuss may fall into that category for certain buyers.

Oh and bespoke shoes start at around 3K and can command a much higher price so a variety of people do buy 3K+ shoes.

Bingo. Bourgeoisie is not defined as a class by the amount of money its members have, but by their societal values and cultural taste.

[Faust]

It is precisely the conspicuous art consumption of private collectors that is pricing museums out of the market. They rely on gift from generous donors (often collectors themselves) and only have the budget for a few well-targeted acquisitions anyway.

If rich dudes didn't want to show off you'd actually have MORE interesting recent pieces in museums, all things considered.

Correct again. Everyone should watch this documentary, which includes interviews with museum directors from the met and moma where they complain that they are priced out of the market by private collectors.

[endorphinz]

endorphinz, there is something called a middle ground. A lot of people I know, including many of the people on this forum, are able to own these labels based on 2 major factors: 1. they're not making frequent expenditures on lower to mid-range brands like Diesel, A&F, Kenneth Cole, etc (like the vast majority of people do, both male and female). Instead, they'll pool their cash for a while until they can drop it on one great piece–that will likely stay in their possession for a lot longer than anything found at the mall. It's a matter of having one stellar blazer/coat/boot whatever, over 3-4 that add up to the same amount in cost, but never character.

And 2. you're making the assumption that everything is acquired for full retail price, which is the case maybe half the time, if that. When people aren't making bank, they still find ways to get things they want. Between online auctions like eBay, SZ & SuFu classifieds (let one thing go, acquire another) store sales, etc, they're kopping their shit at a price that they're able to swing, even if it means letting the electric bill double over. Full retail purchases often go on credit cards, get paid down, then get jacked back up. If they work in the industry, they get discounts deep enough to make you cry, or they receive gratis. Though there are plenty of exceptions, if you were to peer into a many of their closets, you'd find that they're half as full as you might expect–though when you did the math, your mind would be blown.

No one I know is dropping 20K on shopping sprees, but I've dressed many people who have such budgets, and you know what the common thread, no pun intended, running between each of them is? They more often than not look contrived due to a painfully obvious lack of sincerity, which no amount of money can fake. I've found that those who appreciate artisanal/niche clothing the most are those who can afford it the least.

Just goes to show that money and style are mutually exclusive. Most everyone here already knows it. The rest are throwing around assumptions and adages because they don't have anything else to go by.

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without going line for line, this is a synopsis of your post:

we dig this shit, don't buy other shit, save our $$$ and look for great deals so we can buy this shit and love it long time.

got no prob with your analysis. HOWEVER, it doesn't address the OP's topic. the thread is about insane pricing.

i actually agree with what you said. i'm an old dude that's been involved im men's wear for eons...well was involved eons ago.
i have pieces in my closet for 30 years...pieces i sacrificed my soul for..my fav black blazer is a 30 year old wool crepe vintage Armani from his first us collection. (been "restored" twice)....got shoes and boots that are over 25 years old that, given inflation, were in the price ranges we are speaking of.

no "fashion passion" lectures needed here.

no one is claiming $$$ =style but $$$$ is supporting these manufactures and retail outlets. SOMEONE is paying full retail. Atelier,Barney's et al are not covering their nut by waiting for szers to buy an occasional piece @40% off.

fuck, i've been in Barney's and watched salespeople stick their noses up the ass of someone who did just drop 20k....and that's cool. if ya got it, spend it. imo, these are the people that ultimately support these labels and support the insane pricing

you mention unpaid electric bills and mounting cc debt....those are the sacrifices i speak of....again, very cool...just said that i hope theses sacrifices are worth it....there has to be a fine line somewhere, no?

i maintain that the price structure on these l33t brands is almost completely artificial. yes, quality fabrics, trimmings and workmanship are involved but....................give me a fuckin' break.

designers wanna get paid for their "artistic vision"?.....again cool but that number is quite subjective and can only be validated and sustained by supply and demand..which brings me back to my initial point.

peeps saving for months and buying shit @40% off can't possibly supply the demand that keeps these brands afloat

just my opinion..your mileage may vary.

[Faust]

Interest1, thank you for your passionate, insightful posts. Best of SZ indeed and makes me proud to have contributors like you.

[Faust]

endorphinz - what's the point of this, really? ok, even if you are right, and designers are equivalent to washing machine manufacturers and wall street bankers, what is the logical end of your rant?

[endorphinz]

i got no rant. i'm just addressing the OT..sheeeeeeeesh

[mortalveneer]

I want to say one of the reasons why people want to buy CCP and MA+ even though they are charging very high prices, is that there is a big second hand market behind them. And the second hand price is still very high. Like me, I paid around $1800USD for the CCP boots 2 years ago, I wear them almost everyday. I believe they would get sold for at least $1200USD now if I put them on the market. At least that was one of the reasons convinced me to buy a pair of boots with such a high price.

This situation reminds me of that in women's world, they like to buy LV hand bags. If you ask them why you spend tons of money on LV hand bags, they would say because everyone has one, and when you are tired of the bag, you can sell it to recover most of the money you spent on it. Then you move on to buy a new LV hand bag.

Glad someone brought this up.

Although, it may be the very exclusivity of these lines that enable them to hold value. Esp. given the way prices have been careening out of the stratosphere (partly due to the plummeting dollar), I have sold pieces used for considerably more than I got them new. That's one hell of an aftermarket, and is oft cited as a justification for such clothing purchases to my economist parents.

[mortalveneer]

Just goes to show that money and style are FAR MORE OFTEN THAN NOT mutually exclusive. Most everyone here already knows it. The rest are throwing around assumptions and adages because they don't have anything else to go by.

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Agree with everyone else that this post kills it. However, I had to soften it slightly, as I have known some moneyed folks who were as passionate and discerning regarding their utilization of fashion for personal aesthetic expression as are most forum member here. Granted, they are few and far between, almost to the point of being the exception to the rule.

[interest1]

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i got no rant. i'm just addressing the OT..sheeeeeeeesh

OT= Outpatient Treatment .(as in "not going so well")





It's all starting to make sense.

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[pierce]

"ok, even if you are right, and designers are equivalent to washing machine manufacturers and wall street bankers, what is the logical end of your rant?"

That we should not associate clothes with art? Mind you alot of artist fall in this category also

For me personally, I sometimes find hyper consumerism or this maximizing ( considering resale value...) totally alien to my way of thinking. Not that its wrong but I like to question it and figure it out. Is it an american thing?

[endorphinz]

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OT= Outpatient Treatment .(as in "not going so well")





It's all starting to make sense.

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and i initially thought you were a cool chick that "got it"

live and learn....turns out you ain't that interesting