The pricing is crazy/justified thread

[Chinorlz]

Indeed there is a time (and there sort of always has been) for smaller, younger designers to come in and offer a high quality, innovative product at a competitive price... the problem is that people don't know about them because they don't have marketing.

With the advent of the internet and more and more fashion blogs/sites/forums etc., the potential of a previously unknown designer getting noticed is highER, but still is quite difficult to get picked up.

The sad part is, with the markups and continual price climbing of what is essentially the same garment (or equivalent in material and construction complexity), the small-scale designer is very likely not getting rich and actually probably just having the opportunity to make a decent living versus just scraping by.

Others have pointed to it as well, but the breakdowns of costs on the honest-by site are really interesting. There is also the need to increase prices of items over the seasons as the brand(s) get more well known because of a need to increase production and thus expand working staff/equipment which leads to what at first seems like a paradoxical increase in retail price instead of a lower one (MA+ slim belts being $215 at full retail during his first collection and wallets were sub-$300).

In the end, everything we buy on the shelves/online/etc has been marked up. We'd all rather not think about it or just complain that things are inflated, but everyone has to make a buck somehow and if it's from the rich, then that's cool too. Personally, I've been priced out of just about all of the brands I like at full retail... really have been priced out years ago as I just can't let myself spend that kind of money on garment XYZ. I respect the work that these men and women do and how hard they work at it, I'll just let the Hermes leather seat/vicuna toilet paper folks support them financially.

[Faust]

are ph jackets really now over USD3500?! which of the factors is accounting for that?

Last I checked they were 1,400 EUR at L'Eclaireur. Manageable by today's standards, I'd say.

[eleven crows]

Great post, Chinorlz.

How about the brands (m.a+, LUC, CCP, etc.) that do not allow their work to go on sale? Do you see this as an effort to stop dilluting the value of the brand? How about Harnden forbiding online sales? It certainly keeps the value up on the secondhand market.

[Chinorlz]

Great post, Chinorlz.

How about the brands (m.a+, LUC, CCP, etc.) that do not allow their work to go on sale? Do you see this as an effort to stop dilluting the value of the brand? How about Harnden forbiding online sales? It certainly keeps the value up on the secondhand market.

For Harnden, I think in part it is not-marketing-as-marketing. He may honestly truly live a simple life and create what he creates and thus prefers things done the old school way (which he certainly does) and eschews new technology, but that in itself could be considered marketing. Definitely a calculated risk because you must know your target audience very well to know that by forgoing modern means of distribution, you will actually increase your sales.

Not allowing the work to go on sale is sort of a soft call really because somewhere around the world, those brands are definitely going on sale... it may just not be during the classic end of the 6 month cycle type time frame. Atelier has put CCP on sale in the past... even Linea.

Not putting things on sale/not wishing they be put on sale tells the buyers (be it the store and/or the end customer) that this is not meant to be disposable, not meant to be changed out in 6 months but is something that has Value. There is some level of romanticism in all of this from Harnden to CCP and in an ideal world it would work out perfectly. Unfortunately the world still runs on money and everyone needs at least a little of it constantly so like it or not, most designers still have to produce a new collection every 6 months and stores are going to mark down their stuff at some point either to just clear the racks for the next season or just to unload old stock and cut their losses on unsold pieces. The battle between business/retail and a designer's ideal world/image will go on forever.

[agentred]

Not putting things on sale/not wishing they be put on sale tells the buyers (be it the store and/or the end customer) that this is not meant to be disposable... ...battle between business/retail and a designer's ideal world/image will go on forever.

I think that battle has to include consumers too. I totally agree with your point about being priced out of full retail for certain things, no matter how rich you are that has to happen at some point, but I don't know if it's a matter of black or white sale/not sale.

My assumption is that there are a lot of people who buy items exclusively on sale, and some who buy exclusively full price preseason collections. The first camp is subject to volume risk (the pieces they like sell out) while the second camp has price risk.

But that leaves a lot of leeway for us in the middle. Set a budget and then trust your judgement. On the pieces you think will sell out: purchase them, for everything else wait until the sale. That way designers/stores/consumers all win, and the 'pricing is crazy' matters less because you aggregate your purchases.

[Chinorlz]

I think that battle has to include consumers too. I totally agree with your point about being priced out of full retail for certain things, no matter how rich you are that has to happen at some point, but I don't know if it's a matter of black or white sale/not sale.

My assumption is that there are a lot of people who buy items exclusively on sale, and some who buy exclusively full price preseason collections. The first camp is subject to volume risk (the pieces they like sell out) while the second camp has price risk.

But that leaves a lot of leeway for us in the middle. Set a budget and then trust your judgement. On the pieces you think will sell out: purchase them, for everything else wait until the sale. That way designers/stores/consumers all win, and the 'pricing is crazy' matters less because you aggregate your purchases.

Very true. I think what you've written applies to a big portion of the consumers on here and those that I know IRL... there are those one or two pieces that you definitely gotta have when it hits the racks and you'll pay full price to ensure your size and that it'll be yours. Then the rest of it you are willing to wait for.

My personal desires and urges for clothing acquisitions have simmered down tremendously over the years as I get more comfortable in my personal "uniform" and so I peruse classifieds/ebay/yahoo for those rare pieces that i am still searching for years later and occasionally add pieces that are at a huge discount to fill out my closet with slacks/dress shirts etc.

[agentred]

I get more comfortable in my personal "uniform" and so I peruse classifieds/ebay/yahoo for those rare pieces that i am still searching for years later

This, exactly this, if you really really really really love a piece, get it full price. Otherwise, hold off and pick it up on sale or wait until it turns up in the classifieds or an outlet store, the odds are good that it will.

[Faust]

As F/W arrivals begin their descent, time to reopen this thread

[Chinorlz]

Once again I will continue to predominantly rely on classifieds/ebay/end of season sales to add BBS/PH/RO/etc. to my closet.

There are no pieces that I need so badly as to want to pay full retail on especially when RO/BBS is being produced in enough quantity to result in plenty available in the secondhand market. I can't even count how much Rick I picked up over the course of last year that was brand new, never worn, complete with all tags at a fraction of retail. Not to mention that the pricing remains out of control. The fact that you can get yourself completely set up with a high quality vintage tube audio system (or put a down payment on a car) for about the price of 1 BBS/CCP leather at full retail goes to show how crazy things have gotten.

[Lucky Strike]

I wish I had purchased more Boris back in 09. Paying retail nowadays is hurting my wallet too hard. Too many sacrifices. In general though I don't feel Im buying cheaper things or brands. I just tend to buy fewer. I almost never buy anything on impulse anymore and I try to focus my money on things that will last (shoes, jackets etc). No more 250 eur tees. I purchased a pair of Rigards last month which would have been out of my budget for sunglasses to wear 3 months a year (yeah thats all we get in Sweden)...but putting optical lenses in them for everyday wear all year makes it another thing. In that sense I think Ive become more aware of the things Im consuming. If that is due to higher prices or aging I dont know...maybe a combo :)

[cjbreed]

the expensive tees and tops and stuff are a realistic purchase once you've acquired more jackets and shoes than you can possibly give the appropriate amount of attention to in a reasonable period of time. like when you live in texas where its 1000 degrees year round and your wife says if you buy one more jacket i'm going to set it on fire. and for the shoes, many of sz's favored labels make a shoe that is built to last and evolve with time. its not right to just pile up shoe after shoe when you're not getting the best experience out of the ones you already have. the urge to kop will always be there, so...buy the tee's! besides, they make all the difference. its the details that elevate a look. not all black tee's are created equal...

[delicious_not]

this season i'm using a new technique. i collect pics and links and think about how many $$$ i'd like to spend on this or that. this jacket would be great for 50-60% off retail, this sweatshirt is too hot so i'll wait for just a free shipping, etc... no more bullshit like "30% off is nice, but i'll wait for additional 10% off code.. or maybe i should wait for 50%?", tired of losing stuff and then regretting it for months. it's all about psychology and the amount of money in your bank account i guess, but honestly i don't know why would anyone want to buy a f/w 3-4k winter coat in july.

[550BC]

but honestly i don't know why would anyone want to buy a f/w 3-4k winter coat in july.

Because,


...and you don't want it to get sold out by the time you can wear it.

[Lucky Strike]

buy the tee's!

Its not that I didnt buy them in the first place. I did and I stopped.
Im not saying u shouldnt buy tees or whatever. Just saying that price, age or whatever made me realize that some type of garments are very hard for me to justify for my own wallet.
But if you buy tees cause you dont have other things to buy then maybe the pricing isnt really concerning you? All wallets are not created equal ;)

[i-d-g]

Has anyone considered the possibility that this bubble of rising prices of luxury goods will "burst" at some point in the near future?

I understand that smaller designers are being suffocated in a sense, and have no choice but to raise prices to stay alive, but at which point will the focus be put on a higher volume of moderately-priced goods instead of a small quantity of high priced goods (which nobody can afford)?

The rising prices aren't sustainable from a business point of view due to exactly what Chinorlz said above. The second hand market will continue to grow and less money will find its way to the (already struggling) designers.