Forum Changes

[BECOMING-INTENSE]

I don't see how this suddenly has become the actual point of
this site, just because a professional group of people needs
to pay to gain access to the forums and use it's content.

I see it as one point amongst many.

[genevieveryoko]

Before this change anyone could "suck out and grow fat on" Stylezeitgeist, including H&M, without your knowledge.

Now it can be controlled who, except for those who are already here.

I don't get this, even if people have to register you still can't control who looks at it - any fashion professional/company can still create an account using somebody else's info...how can that be controlled?

[BECOMING-INTENSE]

Yes, of course they can, but to what extend will a fashion
professional/company go to get access is the question then.
And that's to me a bit to much thoughts of paranoia.

Anyways, the rule text in it self has a great deal of sarcasm,
so I don't even see it as a point of commerce, more as hindering.

[Faust]

yes! this split is what i think just happened - and the more i think about it the more i think it bothers me. faust - no reply on my point about disclosing who/which companies (if any) in the future sign up for paid access to the board? for instance, if H&M pay you a wad of cash for their marketing and design dept. to gain access to sz, will we ever know this? or will we all just keep adding more and more stuff -about ourselves and about the world - to the forums which they can suck out and grow fat on? maybe it's a hypothetical situation, but i'd still like to know...

i'm aware most members couldn't care less what the SZ business model is - but i for one am here because as far as i know it is NOT a site profiting without my knowledge from me as a target consumer or as a marketing insight. maybe i'm naive, but i would like to think that was sort of the underlying philosophy of this place? i love the interaction and content of this place, but not as much as i hate being taken advantage of by some soulless corporation. so if it comes down to a choice, it's not much of a choice...

If you really want to Just don't act like you are so precious. We lift content from other sites to contribute to the forum, other sites lift content from us. It's exchange of information which allows everyone to grow. Where would we be if we could not post catwalk images from other sties?

[Faust]

I don't see how this suddenly has become the actual point of
this site, just because a professional group of people needs
to pay to gain access to the forums and use it's content.

I see it as one point amongst many.

Thank you. At least somebody gets it.

[Shucks]

that's not the point.

all of a sudden what i (and anyone else) do on sz is now something which is still available to everybody - including H&M apparently - but it is now being offered in exchange for money. so yes i really wanna know if you are selling access to companies, some of which i absolutely despise, such as trend forecasting agencies, market research consultancies and fast fashion companies. there is no mutual 'exchange of information' coming from this change - only a revenue stream in return for user-generated content and marketing insights.

yes there are a bunch reasons for people to stay on sz of course, just like with facebook. but do you really want to have mark zuckerberg as your moral compass? surely we can do better than that.

[kunk75]

the whole internet is driven by UGC. It doesn't bother me. It's like the truman show in medges. If it means designers will listen, I am all for it.

interesting, slightly disturbing move

if you aren't paying for the content
you are the content

somebody said that about facebook but it applies here

[Faust]

Shucks, I don't understand you. If anything, fashion professionals now have LESS access to SZ, not more. So, by your paranoid logic, I am actually protecting you.

As for the rest, looks like you don't understand - read B-I's posts again. Nothing changes for the forum itself. I don't make or sell any products, I don't mine your data, I don't give your email address away or any other things that social networks do. So, please stop with the conspiracy theories, seriously. You are making a big deal out of nothing.

[kunk75]

^ I get it. I don't see the big deal or any change of concern for current members

[AKA*NYC]

i can't imagine that anyone who is shrewd enough to mine sz for professional purposes would actually cough up the juice when a fake and/or personal account is so simple to make. if anything this just makes the site harder to access for well-intentioned but not internet forum-savvy souls (as i was prior to my discovery of sz) and therefore takes useful foot traffic away from the affiliates who are already on board.

[Peasant]

A valid point, but most will certainly be able to register without much confusion. And yes, anybody who wants to pirate or browse for "inspiration" will easily be able to create a fake account. Even if it needs to be connected to a non-work email. Obviously, just as easy to create. Over-all, though the changes can be good. Cut down on some of the bullshit. Just the thought of registering and committing an email address and / or name will deter some of the trolls. But yes, those simply googling a designer for where to kop info will be deterred as well. I can't see a huge loss for the boutiques. But in a place like this, where one designer easily leads to another, newbies may never see or hear about them (a plus for the selfish).
Sounds like more work than necessary, but I'm not a Mod and I don't have to deal with the shit anyway. Maybe it's cutting down on irritants that I'm unaware of.

[MetroBulotDodo]

Really, the second one writes something that can be viewed by a public audience, one has then already contributed an immaterial commodity that's ripe for misuse under particular conditions (that is if you believe that commodities can be divided between material and immaterial, but that's beside the point.) Unless that "immaterial" commodity has been trademarked in some form, anyone or any corporation who has access can theoretically get fat by skimming off the collective creativity of the forum (look at how popular theaddict is on eBay, for example.)

I see that limiting access is a "good" deterrent. It may not be the most secure means, but it is one, nonetheless.

Professional journals have a scaled subscription charge; institutions fund the bulk of the subscriptions that I would not be able to afford were I to have to pay my precise share of the production costs, given the costs due to their limited runs. Professionals -- a designer say -- ought to be able to pay, and yeah, perhaps I'm naive, but let's hope that they respect the mutuality of the contribution that happens in this medium and pay.

Last point: ultimately, one has to trust that Faust is *not* Mark Zuckerburg, right? I mean, this man does not even like sneakers...I doubt that he'd let friggin' H & M run roughshod over forum users. My guess, based on what I've seen, is that Faust's moral compass - especially the pink tide that runs through our comrade's veins - is oriented in a such a way that will work to keep our interests protected. I trust until I do not have a reason to, so I stay. E is not without a stake in this: he holds our trust in his hands, some part of his legitimacy in the industry... these considerations *must* come into play in his decisions, methinks.

In any case, let's be pragmatic here. The man has to foot the big 'ol pain in the ass bill for bandwidth. Seriously, gears and springs start shooting out of my head when I dare think about the immensity of it, I mean...ow. This is not to say that all should be sacrificed so that bill can be paid, but let's believe that it won't be done in a manner we, the forum as a collectivity, would find objectionable or unsatisfactory. And if so, you'd be able to answer easily your own question about your continued participation. In that case, the answer would be glaringly clear, no? You'd want no part of that, so you'd leave. Easy.

Cheers,

MBD

[Shucks]

look i realize it's probably not going to change how much/little companies are using the site for their own purposes. don't call me paranoid - that's not what bothers me.

what does bother me is that all of a sudden, you've now turned the content of the site - which is generated by the members in their free time - into a commodity which is for sale. that - plus the fact that you brush it all off so easily as if it doesn't matter - makes it seem like you've now changed the guiding principles of this place 180 degrees.

that just isn't cool.

my 2 cents. i'm done.

[nictan]

^ i dont think Faust is putting the information/content on this site up for sale per se. explicitly 'advertising' and putting it up for sale blatantly is different from collecting money for usage.

all that has changed is, if you were once a business who has been mining information from SZ for free, you now have to pay. its not like Faust goes around contacting H&M asking if they would like to subscribe to exclusive SZ content.

[Faust]

Don't bother, Nictan. Shucks is not stupid.