Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

LA Times Magazine - Kobe Bryant

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts
  • Faust
    kitsch killer
    • Sep 2006
    • 37852

    #61
    Originally posted by Mail-Moth View Post
    Yes, but they're poor culture-wise. And they of course have awful taste, like bandit kings in popular fiction, with massive golden ring bearing stones big as a pigeon's egg passed to each finger and tatters of purple velvet, embroidered silk and precious furs haphazardly draped over their stinking flesh - when we, for our part, rather represent some form of aristocraty : that is, those for whom all those jewels and robes were initially made, to be worn and displayed at their ceremonies, suppers and bals.
    I was thinking more along the lines "the evolution of culture is synonymous with the removal of ornamentation from objects of everyday use" and "lack of ornamentation is a sign of intellectual strength."
    Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

    StyleZeitgeist Magazine

    Comment

    • Mail-Moth
      Senior Member
      • Mar 2009
      • 1448

      #62
      Wow, I'll need some recontextualization to answer those quotes properly. What is exactly ornamentation here ?
      I can see a hat, I can see a cat,
      I can see a man with a baseball bat.

      Comment

      • Chant
        Banned
        • Jun 2008
        • 2775

        #63
        Ornament is a crime, and so on. Loos and company.
        Minimalism/functionalism is nothing else but a period in history of art (and as usual, a reaction against the previous dominant movement), not its end or goal.

        In addition, I wouldn't say that any of the designers praised here is a minimalist. on the contrary.
        Last edited by Chant; 05-09-2010, 01:17 PM.

        Comment

        • Mail-Moth
          Senior Member
          • Mar 2009
          • 1448

          #64
          Tu m'as coupé l'herbe sous le pied ! J'attendais un éclaircissement avant d'attaquer sur le minimalisme.
          Bon, je vais m'instruire un peu !
          I can see a hat, I can see a cat,
          I can see a man with a baseball bat.

          Comment

          • Mail-Moth
            Senior Member
            • Mar 2009
            • 1448

            #65
            Originally posted by Christian View Post
            In addition, I wouldn't say that any of the designers praised here is a minimalist. on the contrary.
            Maybe some of them practice what we could call a ruined minimalism ? Like some huge concrete cube after a rain of bombs ? But in that case, don't we have to consider alteration in its widest sense as an avatar of ornamentation ?

            (Well, I'm not forbidden to try, right ? )
            I can see a hat, I can see a cat,
            I can see a man with a baseball bat.

            Comment

            • Faust
              kitsch killer
              • Sep 2006
              • 37852

              #66
              Originally posted by Christian View Post
              Faut réviser tes classiques, le Moth. Et fréquenter plus Le Corbusier, tu vois...
              Ornament is a crime, and so on. Loos and company.
              Minimalism/functionalism is nothing else but a period in history of art (and as usual, a reaction against the previous dominant movement), not its end or goal.

              In addition, I wouldn't say that any of the designers praised here is a minimalist. on the contrary.
              True, and I am not a wholesale subscriber to Loos/Le Corbusier by any means. BUT, I think there is something to be said about those quotes. Look around today at contemporary aesthetic in architecture, design, furniture, clothes - a certain sobriety is there, clean lines predominate, and overall I think we do prefer stuff that is easier on the eye, not garish, loudly colored, and over-ornamented. We find bling vulgar for a reason. I am not talking pure minimalism, but a gradual removal of ornamentation that reflects a certain maturity of intellect and spirit. And most designers championed on this board reflect that. Maybe a juxtaposition will help - Ann Demeulemeester vs. Galliano, Yohji Yamamoto vs. Gucci, Carpe Diem v. Dolce and Gabbana, etc. etc. And of course we love Helmut Lang and Jil Sander. And M.A.+ and LUC are pretty minimal as well.
              Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

              StyleZeitgeist Magazine

              Comment

              • Fuuma
                Senior Member
                • Sep 2006
                • 4050

                #67
                Originally posted by Faust View Post
                True, and I am not a wholesale subscriber to Loos/Le Corbusier by any means. BUT, I think there is something to be said about those quotes. Look around today at contemporary aesthetic in architecture, design, furniture, clothes - a certain sobriety is there, clean lines predominate, and overall I think we do prefer stuff that is easier on the eye, not garish, loudly colored, and over-ornamented. We find bling vulgar for a reason. I am not talking pure minimalism, but a gradual removal of ornamentation that reflects a certain maturity of intellect and spirit. And most designers championed on this board reflect that. Maybe a juxtaposition will help - Ann Demeulemeester vs. Galliano, Yohji Yamamoto vs. Gucci, Carpe Diem v. Dolce and Gabbana, etc. etc. And of course we love Helmut Lang and Jil Sander. And M.A.+ and LUC are pretty minimal as well.
                Let's not be reductive, minimalism may go through certain means (clean lines, raw materials, absence of ornamentation) but the goal is to reduce the apparent trace of individual expression, to give the feeling of the found or functional, mass manufactured object to art and design pieces. Jil Sander is minimal (when it works), Demeulemeester is romantic and thoroughly anti-minimal for example (and yes, as much as say Dolce). Many of the SZ-designers do have something of the arte povera movement (a certain ascetic approach, tension between nature and culture) but they're, overall, not minimalists. I will fight you on that cause I hear minimalism bandied a little too much these days, as, just like authenticity, it has ascended as a core "design for design junkies" value out of a certain misunderstanding. Just like we misunderstood the Greeks and their pure, white marble temples (the paint just vanished with time).
                Selling CCP, Harnden, Raf, Rick etc.
                http://www.stylezeitgeist.com/forums...me-other-stuff

                Comment

                • BSR
                  Senior Member
                  • Aug 2008
                  • 1562

                  #68
                  sure Ann or Rick aren't formal minimalists...

                  ...but most of the designers we like here have a touch of asceticism. that may appear in either in the reduction of the color range to black, or dark and fade tones (CCP or Julius reds are seen as ultimate baroque provocations), or in the choice of raw/used or poor-looking materials, or in purification of designs (MA+, Avantindietro...). In all cases we favor some sort of a typical bourgeois good taste (in a non pejorative sense) against shiny bling bling "mainstream" fashion.
                  pix

                  Originally posted by Fuuma
                  Fuck you and your viewpoint, I hate this depoliticized environment where every opinion should be respected, no matter how moronic. My avatar was chosen just for you, die in a ditch fucker.

                  Comment

                  • Faust
                    kitsch killer
                    • Sep 2006
                    • 37852

                    #69
                    Fuuma, you misread my post. I said specifically that I am not talking about pure minimalism. BSR gets what I'm saying.
                    Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                    StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                    Comment

                    • Fuuma
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2006
                      • 4050

                      #70
                      Originally posted by BSR View Post
                      sure Ann or Rick aren't formal minimalists...

                      ...but most of the designers we like here have a touch of asceticism. that may appear in either in the reduction of the color range to black, or dark and fade tones (CCP or Julius reds are seen as ultimate baroque provocations), or in the choice of raw/used or poor-looking materials, or in purification of designs (MA+, Avantindietro...). In all cases we favor some sort of a typical bourgeois good taste (in a non pejorative sense) against shiny bling bling "mainstream" fashion.
                      Faust/BSR: I you read the part about arte povera I clearly pinpointed to this asceticism and, of course, use of raw materials. Still it is a different ballgame and I am not sure you can easily say the interest in these designers is borne out of "bourgeois good taste" so much as the opposition to, say D&G, is related to that set of values.

                      Oh and you can't use "we" if you include me considering I wear a lot of "gaudy" mainstream (or bordering on) fashion. From Mickey mouse cashmere sweaters to beaded tux collars I can't be accused of entirely conforming to what you call "bourgeois good taste".
                      Selling CCP, Harnden, Raf, Rick etc.
                      http://www.stylezeitgeist.com/forums...me-other-stuff

                      Comment

                      • BSR
                        Senior Member
                        • Aug 2008
                        • 1562

                        #71
                        @ fuuma: i wasn't contradicting you for once, of course arte povera is ascetic about the use of materials and so on. and my bourgeois good taste idea was more of a joke reminding of what the greatest french fashion theorist -namely Marc Guyot- once said about the taste for black: that it is the mark of the boring bourgeois taste against the heroic aristocratic times when daring color matches were the proof of superior distinction.

                        and thanks for reminding us of the marvels of your wardrobe ...they certainly are necessary attributes to the Guyot-style lord you are tell us the truth now, you are his hidden son!
                        pix

                        Originally posted by Fuuma
                        Fuck you and your viewpoint, I hate this depoliticized environment where every opinion should be respected, no matter how moronic. My avatar was chosen just for you, die in a ditch fucker.

                        Comment

                        • Chant
                          Banned
                          • Jun 2008
                          • 2775

                          #72
                          Fuuma : Yes, you have as well a very sure "bourgeois bad taste".

                          Comment

                          • Mail-Moth
                            Senior Member
                            • Mar 2009
                            • 1448

                            #73
                            But this if often perceived as ironical - which is some sort of a virtue from a bourgeois point of view.

                            Edit : two answers too late.
                            I can see a hat, I can see a cat,
                            I can see a man with a baseball bat.

                            Comment

                            • Fuuma
                              Senior Member
                              • Sep 2006
                              • 4050

                              #74
                              Il faut en planter des aiguilles pour être Marc Guyot!
                              Selling CCP, Harnden, Raf, Rick etc.
                              http://www.stylezeitgeist.com/forums...me-other-stuff

                              Comment

                              • BSR
                                Senior Member
                                • Aug 2008
                                • 1562

                                #75
                                Originally posted by Fuuma View Post
                                Il faut en planter des aiguilles pour être Marc Guyot!
                                Marc Guyot c'est l'excentricité




                                indispensable video link: http://www.ma-gold.fr/uploads/wizman/shopping.mov
                                pix

                                Originally posted by Fuuma
                                Fuck you and your viewpoint, I hate this depoliticized environment where every opinion should be respected, no matter how moronic. My avatar was chosen just for you, die in a ditch fucker.

                                Comment

                                Working...
                                X
                                😀
                                🥰
                                🤢
                                😎
                                😡
                                👍
                                👎