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  • Jtothewhat
    Member
    • Oct 2014
    • 78

    Originally posted by chandler View Post
    Sorry for the delayed reply. If you want to burn fat I'd suggest fasted light cardio in the morning. Follow that with oatmeal. The carbs in the morning are generally good to boost the metabolism but you'll probably get better results from the fasted cardio (e.g., walking on treadmill as fast as you can while still being able to have a conversation -- NO faster or you'll go from fat burning to catabolic)

    I train mid afternoon because I'm mostly interested in strength and that's when I'm most awake (better neural efficiency)
    Do you think you could combine a fasted light cardio workout with regular training? As in maybe warming up with some cardio on the treadmill as you say, then moving into a regular workout in weight training? Or would you do them on separate days?

    Comment

    • chandler
      Member
      • Jan 2011
      • 54

      Originally posted by Jtothewhat View Post
      Do you think you could combine a fasted light cardio workout with regular training? As in maybe warming up with some cardio on the treadmill as you say, then moving into a regular workout in weight training? Or would you do them on separate days?
      I wouldn't go from fasted cardio to a regular workout directly. The idea behind fasted cardio is your glycogen is depleted from fasting overnight. So doing exercise needs fuel but there's no glycogen. So you either burn body fat or get more catabolic breaking down muscle tissue (which you would rather keep). That's why you want the cardio to be relatively light but perhaps longer time. So you burn the fat but don't break down the muscle. If you ran for example you couldn't burn the fat fast enough to keep up with the energy needs and thus you'd start breaking down muscle tissue. That's at least the way I understand it

      So if you transitioned to lifting right away you'd run the risk that the energy demanded would be too high and you'd break muscle tissue down for fuel

      Having said that you could certainly exercise that same day and perhaps that same morning but you'd want some food or a carb drink in your system beforehand. If you wanted to do it the same morning I'd suggest consuming one of the fast acting carb drinks before. Honestly it's a good idea regardless. I use vitargo but there are a lot of alternatives. These tend to all be highly processed starches that are supposed to digest super quick to help replenish glycogen

      Personally I prefer to lift in. The afternoon not the morning because I'm not a morning person and you want to be wide awake when you lift -- not because you might be drowsy and drop something but because you'll have better neural efficiency. When your brain tells your muscles to fire (I.e., lift, contract etc) they'll do so more efficiently and you'll either be able to lift heavier, or more reps, or better form depending on your training goals.

      Hope that helps and wasn't too much lifting gobley gook

      Comment

      • MoFiya
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2007
        • 1438

        ^ muscular glycogen is far from depleted after one night of sleep, especially if one ate the evening before... Working out fasted = instant fat burning is a myth.
        I have dreams of orca whales and owls
        But I wake up in fear

        BBS for sale (Sz 48-52)

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        • Law
          Senior Member
          • Dec 2013
          • 513

          Originally posted by MoFiya View Post
          ^ muscular glycogen is far from depleted after one night of sleep, especially if one ate the evening before... Working out fasted = instant fat burning is a myth.
          This.

          Hence the reason why fasted LISS cardio is most effective and consistent when truly in a depleted state, i.e when running a keto diet.

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          • chandler
            Member
            • Jan 2011
            • 54

            Originally posted by MoFiya View Post
            ^ muscular glycogen is far from depleted after one night of sleep, especially if one ate the evening before... Working out fasted = instant fat burning is a myth.
            It's worked very effectively for me a number of times. Curious if you tried it

            Comment

            • MoFiya
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2007
              • 1438

              I did Intermittent Fasting for 2+ years, so ... yeah.
              I have dreams of orca whales and owls
              But I wake up in fear

              BBS for sale (Sz 48-52)

              Comment

              • Faust
                kitsch killer
                • Sep 2006
                • 37852

                Originally posted by chandler View Post
                I agree with Gucci's advice. There's an old saying that abs are made in the kitchen not the gym

                I'm an advocate of a lower carb diet to focus on reducing body fat. Carbs, especially refined or high in GI, tell the body to store excess calories as fat (or so I'm told). Regardless it works. There are sexier approaches but they require too much discipline in my own experience

                In terms of exercise to reduce fat the only thing I've ever had success w is very light cardio in a fasted state. For example, walking on a treadmill as fast as you can but still able to have a conversation. anything faster and you risk deepening a catabolic state where your body will consume it's own hard-gained muscle mass to fuel the workout. I used to do this first thing in the morning before breakfast so your body is in a nice fasted state so that fat reserves would fuel the exercise. This has worked for me but is less powerful than diet. Also because it's slow pace it's more time consuming
                It's been working. Cut out carbs in the evening, and in general consume less calories in the evening, and it shows - fast. Getting used to just drinking water when I feel hungry in the evenings - I know the feeling of hunger can be misleading (i.e.e you are either thirsty or bored).

                I exercise before lunch - it's a perfect time for me to take a prolonged break, as my mornings are work-intensive.
                Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                StyleZeitgeist Magazine

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                • chandler
                  Member
                  • Jan 2011
                  • 54

                  Originally posted by MoFiya View Post
                  I did Intermittent Fasting for 2+ years, so ... yeah.
                  I'm aware of the criticisms of fasted cardio but usually they're not the one you cite (no one says the glycogen is exhausted, just depleted). The typical criticisms I see are that there may be better approaches like HIIT because they may be more effective with "after burn" and that exercise in a fasted state can raise cortisol etc. I can't vouch for these other approaches because I don't have the personal experience with them

                  And for the record, my own philosophy for dieting and lifting is that the best program/diet is the one you can stick with -- save the sexy stuff for only when necessary. I have seen way too many people start a program guns ablazing and they just burn out fast and give up -- especially with lifting.

                  Calorie defecit is of course key and will get you most of the way there if not all the way there depending on your goals. But if you want low bf% eventually it peters out and further calorie reduction won't give you the results; your metabolism just slows down in response to reduced calories (e.g., heart rate slows ever so slightly, body temp lowers etc.), and it stops getting tricked by cheat days and the like. Then I typically switch to reduced carb diets or carb cycling, and this will work for a while but eventually peter out, and then (at least for me) I need to resort to something fancier (e.g., keto diets which i hate for personal reasons but find necessary for me if i want to get real low bf).

                  For me the fasted cardio is an option when i'm in the later stages, e.g., reduced carb or later. It burns fat but the reality is light cardio is very time consuming. It doesn't burn all that many calories per hour. SO it's more of a tweak/trick to get the tough stuff at the end, when the simpler dieting etc. stop working

                  for those who like references here is one: https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0124091425.htm

                  Comment

                  • chandler
                    Member
                    • Jan 2011
                    • 54

                    Originally posted by Faust View Post
                    It's been working. Cut out carbs in the evening, and in general consume less calories in the evening, and it shows - fast. Getting used to just drinking water when I feel hungry in the evenings - I know the feeling of hunger can be misleading (i.e.e you are either thirsty or bored).

                    I exercise before lunch - it's a perfect time for me to take a prolonged break, as my mornings are work-intensive.
                    this is great to hear! I've used reduced carb diet, e.g., 40/35/25 split and find it quite livable. meat/veg at many meals. One meal might be oatmeal or might have some bread. Not too drastic

                    Comment

                    • Faust
                      kitsch killer
                      • Sep 2006
                      • 37852

                      Yeah, I can do protein and veggies for dinner - no problem.
                      Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                      StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                      Comment

                      • trentk
                        Senior Member
                        • Oct 2010
                        • 709

                        Does it annoy anyone else how rick owens himself values fitness, yet he doesn't cast fit male models in his runway shows? I mean, if he wants to have more bodytypes than simply fit, fine .... but why are fit male models altogether absent? Ridiculous.
                        "He described this initial impetus as like discovering that they both were looking at the same intriguing specific tropical fish, with attempts to understand it leading to a huge ferocious formalism he characterizes as a shark that leapt out of the tank."

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