Atelier Article and Interview with K.S. in Haaretz (Israel)

[Pinoy]

Re: Atelier Article and Interview with K.S. in Haaretz (Israel)



[quote user="laika"] [quote user="Faust"]/\ totally expands! two jackets for the price of one! [73]
[/quote]

lol, i had no idea that was such a priority here on SZ.
[/quote]

Hahahaha new signature anyone?

[Pinoy]

Re: Atelier Article and Interview with K.S. in Haaretz (Israel)

[quote user="wire.artist"]

When junya did joints he was solving a problem, He wanted men to wear sized down garments and then he added joints to allow some movement. It's an additive process.

I see CCP joints more as an aesthetic approach, It's more an artist than a designer. his obession is the object itself. You have to learn to wear it, it is not gonna help you.

[/quote]

Just to take this one step further, so lets assume (correct or incorrect) that JW was attempting to solve a problem vs CCP who was merely doing things for aesthetic purposes. Where does that take us with regards to reinventing the suit? Does this mean that CCP is treading in shallow waters vs Junya who is trying to accomplish something even greater?

In any case, I always thought CCP did jointed stuff not merely for aesthetic purposes but also for movement. Heh, its a big circular discussion.

[Real Real]

Re: Atelier Article and Interview with K.S. in Haaretz (Israel)

[quote user="laika"]

Whereas Thom Browne, also
interested in fit, is changing the way a suit is worn by altering
proportions--shrinking the size, raising the rise of the trousers,
etc. I definitely think that when it comes to suits, convention has a
lot to do with how the garments fit the body, and in that sense, Thom
Browne is unconventional. [/quote]



It seems to me like TB's main focus has been on offering an alternative symbolism for the suit - creating a "disempower suit" instead of a "power suit".



Suits have traditionally been designed to empower the wearer, make them look better than they do normally, make them part of a group, etc. TB's suits do the opposite - they're designed to be a bit unflattering, to make the wearer look a bit unmasculine or ridiculous. If you want to look at it in a positive way, maybe it's the sartorial equivalent of being self-deprecating in order to make others more comfortable/more approachable.

[BECOMING-INTENSE]

Re: Atelier Article and Interview with K.S. in Haaretz (Israel)

[quote user="laika"]

[quote user="Johnny"]actually i kind of agree with what B-I says, in relation to the taped seaming and exposed and taped construction. the thing about that is that it actually has no innovative functional purpose. the appeal of it to me is an aesthetic one. i actually think that it is probably deliberately useless. someone can correct me here, but I thought that one of the benefits of a bespoke suit (or expensive well made OTR) is that stitched unfused interlining - a benefit because it allows a more organic movement of the garment with the body. CCP does all of the stitched linings and then tapes them down, thus eliminating the principal (conventional) reason for doing it in the first place. [/quote]

That's very interesting, Johnny. I wonder if there is some point to the taping other than the aesthetic one. I also wonder about this, although to a lesser extent, about the joints. I see how they are supposed to work in theory, but in practice, they don't really work unless the pieces happen to fit you perfectly. Kind of a problem, since CCP is not bespoke...

[/quote]

They could also work as to creating "new" joints or forcing the body to acquire different movements, shapes and postures?!
But surely as Johnny also points out it has not only a functional purpose, but an aesthetic one ...

[laika]

Re: Atelier Article and Interview with K.S. in Haaretz (Israel)

[quote user="BECOMING-INTENSE"]

They could also work as to creating "new" joints or forcing the body to acquire different movements, shapes and postures?!
But surely as Johnny also points out it has not only a functional purpose, but an aesthetic one ...

[/quote]

Yes, maybe. But I'm inclined to agree with wire.artist, that CCP is more interested in the object, in creating "living garments." I think it's about working with the body's traces rather than creating different experiences for the living body. It's a more morbid, deathly approach, and I think that's why, for some, his work can be unsettling to look at. I find it very fascinating. [79] Of course, given how restrictive the clothes are, i'm sure one is also forced to move differently, etc.

And I agree that there is definitely an aesthetic function, I was just wondering if there might be others. [75]

wire.artist, both excellent posts. I love "living garments," and also, your architect's perspective. [51]

[laika]

Re: Atelier Article and Interview with K.S. in Haaretz (Israel)

[quote user="laika"][quote user="BECOMING-INTENSE"]

They could also work as to creating "new" joints or forcing the body to acquire different movements, shapes and postures?!
But surely as Johnny also points out it has not only a functional purpose, but an aesthetic one ...

[/quote]

Yes, maybe. But I'm inclined to agree with wire.artist, that CCP is more interested in the object, in creating "living garments." I think it's about working with the body's traces rather than creating different experiences for the living body. It's a more morbid, deathly approach, and I think that's why, for some, his work can be unsettling to look at.

[/quote]

to clarify, something I read that reminded me of Carol:

"[It] makes one think something invisible is present, or rather that one perceives an absence, evoking someone not living there, or rather, someone here, not living."

CCP, designer of ghosts. [79]

[BECOMING-INTENSE]

Re: Atelier Article and Interview with K.S. in Haaretz (Israel)

[quote user="laika"][quote user="BECOMING-INTENSE"]

They could also work as to creating "new" joints or forcing the body to acquire different movements, shapes and postures?!
But surely as Johnny also points out it has not only a functional purpose, but an aesthetic one ...

[/quote]

Yes, maybe. But I'm inclined to agree with wire.artist, that CCP is more interested in the object, in creating "living garments." I think it's about working with the body's traces rather than creating different experiences for the living body. It's a more morbid, deathly approach, and I think that's why, for some, his work can be unsettling to look at. I find it very fascinating. [79] Of course, given how restrictive the clothes are, i'm sure one is also forced to move differently, etc.

And I agree that there is definitely an aesthetic function, I was just wondering if there might be others. [75]

wire.artist, both excellent posts. I love "living garments," and also, your architect's perspective. [51]

[/quote]

Yes, indeed, but I think being concerned with the object or materiality is what actually creates different experiences
for the living body. Morbidity, sickness, restriction, etc. is very much connected with living bodily experiences and bodily sensations.

[51]

[laika]

Re: Atelier Article and Interview with K.S. in Haaretz (Israel)

[quote user="BECOMING-INTENSE"]

Yes, indeed, but I think being concerned with the object or materiality is what actually creates different experiences
for the living body. Morbidity, sickness, restriction, etc. is very much connected with living bodily experiences and bodily sensations.

[51]

[/quote]

[B]

I am enjoying your website, dearest! [<:o)]

Have not yet looked at all the nudes (there are A LOT of them!!!) but I love the awakening self-portrait, and also, the photograph accompanying the bio. [:$][51]

[Pinoy]

Re: Atelier Article and Interview with K.S. in Haaretz (Israel)



I'm definitely not as intimately familiar with Carol's clothes as others here, but exactly what do you mean by he wants to create "living garments"?

[Faust]

Re: Atelier Article and Interview with K.S. in Haaretz (Israel)

[quote user="laika"]

[quote user="Johnny"]actually i kind of agree with what B-I says, in relation to the taped seaming and exposed and taped construction. the thing about that is that it actually has no innovative functional purpose. the appeal of it to me is an aesthetic one. i actually think that it is probably deliberately useless. someone can correct me here, but I thought that one of the benefits of a bespoke suit (or expensive well made OTR) is that stitched unfused interlining - a benefit because it allows a more organic movement of the garment with the body. CCP does all of the stitched linings and then tapes them down, thus eliminating the principal (conventional) reason for doing it in the first place. [/quote]

That's very interesting, Johnny. I wonder if there is some point to the taping other than the aesthetic one. I also wonder about this, although to a lesser extent, about the joints. I see how they are supposed to work in theory, but in practice, they don't really work unless the pieces happen to fit you perfectly. Kind of a problem, since CCP is not bespoke...

[/quote]

Well, I know in ski wear they tape the seams to make the jackets completely water- and windproof. Not sure if it's CCPs concern though.

Speaking of non-functional things, CCP leather jackets this season have reversible zippers. The jackets are not reversible. Ask me how I know.

[Avantster]

Re: Atelier Article and Interview with K.S. in Haaretz (Israel)



Had a quick read and this thread is SZ at it's best. [51]

Keep it going! Hope to contribute during my lunch break.

[deuxmille]

Re: Atelier Article and Interview with K.S. in Haaretz (Israel)

Good article! thanks faust.

[laika]

Re: Atelier Article and Interview with K.S. in Haaretz (Israel)



^And just where have you been?! I was just asking about you, to no avail.

[quote user="danieldy"]

I'm definitely not as intimately familiar with Carol's clothes as others here, but exactly what do you mean by he wants to create "living garments"?

[/quote]

Meaning, garments that appear to have life independent of someone wearing them. Most clothes are animated only when they are worn, but CCP stuff often looks like it might just stand up and go for a walk all on its own. See especially the shoes, jointed and gloved pieces as examples. They appear to preserve traces of life and movement, not simply in a worn-in, "pre-distressed," sort of way, but in a creepy-awesome-someone is still living here sort of way. Does that make sense? It's really just a feeling that the pieces invoke in me, so it's a bit hard to pin down. [76]

[justine]

Re: Atelier Article and Interview with K.S. in Haaretz (Israel)



Not related to the suit per se, but what about the fact that his care instructions for his shoes seem to be ... original to say the least. When I got my ccp oxford, I was told not to wash them as the care instruction suggested because it would destroy them. That probably says something about his 'philosophy' (or insert better word) in term of the object's life.

By the way, I absolutely love Laika's idea about the garments keeping "a creepy-awesome-someone is still living here sort of way" throughout time. It's interesting to see something else than 'fit' be part of what makes the clothes, it's definitely a departure from the fashion seasons view of time.

[Pinoy]

Re: Atelier Article and Interview with K.S. in Haaretz (Israel)

[quote user="laika"]

Meaning, garments that appear to have life independent of someone wearing them. Most clothes are animated only when they are worn, but CCP stuff often looks like it might just stand up and go for a walk all on its own. See especially the shoes, jointed and gloved pieces as examples. They appear to preserve traces of life and movement, not simply in a worn-in, "pre-distressed," sort of way, but in a creepy-awesome-someone is still living here sort of way. Does that make sense? It's really just a feeling that the pieces invoke in me, so it's a bit hard to pin down. [76]

[/quote]

Wonderful explanation, Laika. Thank you so much. Now I understand why that quote reminded you of CCP and what you mean by "CCP, designer of ghosts". Truth be told, I've never thought of CCP in that way before, but now that you've pointed it out, it really does make sense? especially with his shoes.