Poverty wages for garment workers in Eastern Europe and Turkey

[apathy!]

Actually I htink a lot of people find it a little hard to accept that Rick is taking advantage of what a re essentially slave conditions.

We know what the general conditions are in Moldova, but it would be great to know the conditions of the particular factory that Rick (etc) contracts.

That is not outrageous.

[LelandJ]

It would be good to know definitively where Rick contracts or subcontracts his production and find out how much or how little they get paid.

This makes me wonder if there's any streetwear brand in the world of Rick's level of sales, volume or revenue, who don't employ slaves. I'm also curious how much more it would cost Rick, or any designer, to pay $20/hr equivalent to all the people who sew their clothes.

I buy Armani jackets made in Romania by slaves and I'm disgusted with myself. I've sacrificed basic human ethics and decency for fashion. I started the first Amnesty International high school chapter in Indiana during the 90's and this is what I've become.

[BlacknWhite]

Shucks, is there a way to check the brands without their app?

[Lohikaarme]

I'm not sure what you are trying to say with the above. The statistics about eastern european wages in the garment industry relative to subsistence levels are not 'generalizations' but factual data representing what is actually happening there. Yes, there are terrible examples of abuse and exploitation everywhere. The difference is that certain places have these scenarios constitute the everyday norm, and that is why production moves there.

Did you read the sentence after that? I said that such generalizations are probably fine, but we can't generalize the other way around.

[djt00]

Interesting thread. Quite surprising, I didn't know Turkey is among the worst.

Moving production from Italy to Moldova says a lot. It's all about the money as we already know. I'd expect a little more, especially when the prices are what they are.

[Shucks]

Shucks, is there a way to check the brands without their app?

here's the report on which the app is based:

An in depth look at the practices and policies the 50 largest clothing brands operating in Europe are taking to implement a living wage.

company profiles starts on page 21 (first one is on the adidas group). depressing reading, to say the least.

[djt00]

H&M t-shirt costs only 4,95€. It's not fair, but most of the customers doesn't care or want to see what's really going on as long as clothes are cheap. Yes, I own several cheap t-shirts too.

[Faust]

It's fairly important to go on a factory-by-factory basis. There are many factories in the USA which create wage-slaves. Can we generalize a place like Moldova to be bad? Sure, but we also can't be caught up on "made in Italy" or "made in USA" to be any better... there's only a higher probability that the conditions are better.

Perhaps it's better to err on the side of caution, no? I mean this report seems pretty conclusive even if there are exceptions.

[Dorje]

Thanks for posting Shucks.

I too think it's important to do the best we can to support businesses that are run in an ethical manner and boycott those who employ slave labor/sweatshop conditions.

I also feel this is an issue in may 1st world countries like the USA. Our minimum wage guarantees poverty here too... maybe there is more protection against downright abuse, but when companies train their workers to live in poverty by having them get food stamps and other government assistance rather than paying a decent wage, everyone knows it yet people still shop at Wal Mart because it is cheaper... this makes me feel bad for all of humanity. We are trying to achieve in 3rd world countries what we have failed to achieve in our own country. By the cleanclothes definition of living wage many, many Americans are not being paid a living wage either. And one political party is doing everything it can to stop the minimum wage from rising in the USA? We need to bring lynching back.

Then there is the issue that "Made in Italy" or "Made in the USA" may mean that a very minimal amount of assembly work is done and the product is mainly produced in another country, which is unknown...

[LelandJ]

We are trying to achieve in 3rd world countries what we have failed to achieve in our own country. By the cleanclothes definition of living wage many, many Americans are not being paid a living wage either. And one political party is doing everything it can to stop the minimum wage from rising in the USA?

No one is trying to achieve anything in 3rd world, but businesses democratized slavery into the 1st world. And you swallowed one massive blue pill to think political parties are anything but theater to distract from global oligarchies.

[Dorje]

No one is trying to achieve anything in 3rd world, but businesses democratized slavery into the 1st world. And you swallowed one massive blue pill to think political parties are anything but theater to distract from global oligarchies.

Maybe, but the red/blue pill analogy is awful, things are not clear-cut black and white. I also don't care too much about conspiracy theory BS like worrying about global oligarchies... I don't think you, or most anyone, has enough factual information to even form a reasonable opinion.

[LelandJ]

I nor most people have enough factual information to even form a reasonable opinion.

FTFY

But yes there's no point in worrying about what you can't influence. Voting and politicians are clear cut nothing but dog and pony show though. Giving false hope to people with no hope is common sense good business strategy. With fascism, no competition, central banks can also appease by letting people vent kernels of reality on national TV:

[Lohikaarme]

Perhaps it's better to err on the side of caution, no? I mean this report seems pretty conclusive even if there are exceptions.

Sure, though I think that would mean we ought to investigate the factory of every brand we wish to buy from. Made in USA for some companies is just a way to raise a price since there are plenty of USA factories that are sweatshops (my Grandmother worked in one). Same idea for every other country.

[zamb]

As a designer, factory owner and someone who grew up in a third world country i have a perspective on this I'd like to share, that raised points that no one here seems to be considering.

I also have several suggestions I'd like to make to all the people who would like to see some kind of change for the better on these issues, even if those changes are small.

I will make a more detailed post in the next few days when i am in Paris and have more time to gather my thoughts.........



bless
ZB

[Dorje]

FTFY

But yes there's no point in worrying about what you can't influence. Voting and politicians are clear cut nothing but dog and pony show though. Giving false hope to people with no hope is common sense good business strategy. With fascism, no competition, central banks can also appease by letting people vent kernels of reality on national TV:

I agree... but otoh it is normal for conspiracy theorists to believe they have more information than everyone else when what may be true is they have been fed misinformation. It is difficult to know the truth when everyone has strong biases.

You can have 6 people witness the same event and get 6 different reports on what happened. I find it better to not form strong opinions on many things, and I don't understand why most people feel like they need to reach a conclusion and/or form opinions given they don't really have enough information to come to any reasonable conclusion.

Back to the subject at hand... should we boycott every company that does not pay a "living wage" according to cleanclothes' definition? Does every job out there need to be able to support a full family, or can there be lower paid jobs? If we were to boycott every company that does not pay a living wage I think we would find very few retailers and manufacturers to buy ANYTHING from, clothing or otherwise. I am all for fair trade and fair pay, but I'm not sure I 100% agree that every job needs to be able to support a full family with no further income needed.