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Is Designer Fashion Pricing Itself Out of Existence?

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  • Faust
    kitsch killer
    • Sep 2006
    • 37849

    Is Designer Fashion Pricing Itself Out of Existence?

    A conversation I have with someone probably once a week.

    Big-name high-end brands like Burberry, Prada, and LVMH are in difficult financial times: The public simply doesn’t covet their once-desirable labels as much as it used to.


    Has Luxury Fashion Priced Itself Into Extinction?
    Big-name high-end brands like Burberry, Prada, and LVMH are in the midst of difficult financial times: The public simply doesn’t covet their once-desirable labels as much as it used to.

    The fashion eco-system needs and feeds on luxury brands.

    To see how deep its dependence runs, leaf through the opening pages of the April issue of American Vogue. Eliminating cosmetics and jewelry brands, you’ll find, in order, expensive (between $175,000 and $200,000 per page, according to the magazine’s rate card), sometimes multi-page ads from Ralph Lauren, Dior, Gucci, Prada, Chanel, Bottega Veneta, Saint Laurent, Celine, Dolce & Gabbana, Fendi, Marc Jacobs, Michael Kors, DKNY, and La Perla.

    Now, look at that another way. Of those front-of-book advertisers, only the publicly traded Michael Kors and privately held Chanel are stand-alone brands and independent operations. La Perla belongs to a Luxembourg-based private investment firm that also owns modeling agencies.

    Dior, Celine, Fendi, Marc Jacobs, and DKNY are all units of the publicly-traded Louis Vuitton-Moet Hennessey (aka LVMH) group. Bottega Veneta, Gucci, and Saint Laurent belong to the LVMH rival Kering. Ralph Lauren and Prada are the name brands that sit atop other competing so-called luxury groups that trade on public markets.

    Polo Ralph Lauren now owns 13 distinct clothing brands, including Club Monaco, as well as other businesses (one of which serves yummy hamburgers). Though it’s divested its Jil Sander and Helmut Lang units, publicly-traded Prada still owns the footwear brands Church’s and Car Shoe, as well as 80 percent of the Milanese pastry shop Angelo Marchesi.
    And by the time I hit Vogue’s Table of Contents (on page 46, in case you were wondering), I’d still not hit ads from the publicly-traded competitors Richemont (owner of Chloe, Alaia, and lots of watch brands), Hermés International, or Burberry Group, the fashion brands that rounded out a 2015 Ernst & Young list of the world’s top luxury concerns.

    So many big, well-known names. So many ads. But what the fashion magazines and blogs that depend on them as babies do mothers’ milk don’t tell you is this: They are all in so much trouble. This month, Burberry shares fell after the company reported falling revenues and issued a warning to investors that the outlook for near-term profits and revenues was checkered at best. It blamed currency gyrations and political problems in China.

    A few days earlier, LVMH reported an anemic 4 percent growth in first-quarter revenue, and flat sales in its fashion and leather goods divisions, saying terrorist attacks in Paris had hurt handbag sales. Storm warnings first issued from Prada in February; Bloomberg headlined a story on the company with the scary phrase, “Growth Evaporates.”

    In fact, things were worse than that, and this month, Prada reported a 26.6 percent drop in its annual profits. Kering’s Gucci also posted a bigger than expected drop in first-quarter sales, Reuters reported this month, “which it blamed on a transition period as its flagship brand works to regain momentum under a new creative and management duo.” And even Hermés, maker of staid classics that stand apart from the sturm und drang of fashion, has warned that 2016 is “a complicated year.”


    Outwardly, luxury purveyors are putting the prettiest face possible on their fraying frock fortunes.

    On Friday, Kering’s chief financial officer, Jean-Marc Duplaix, kept a stiff upper lip, telling analysts on a conference calls that a first-quarter drop in sales of 7.6 percent at its Bottega Veneta brand was caused by “strong headwinds”: declining European tourism, sluggish sales in Asia, and the strength of the American greenback.

    A week earlier, Burberry’s CFO issued similar excuses for its shrinking revenues and sinking stock price: As WWD reported, “the external environment continues to be challenging for luxury goods players.”
    Certainly, our terrifying world and roller-coaster currencies are part of the problem. But the big brands are using those big issues to paper over an internal rot that runs much deeper and threatens to gum up the works in the machine the manufactures and sells the status signifiers so many once craved like junkies do a fix.

    It’s no coincidence that designer heads are rolling all over fashion’s fields: Alexander Wang has ankled Balenciaga, Hedi Slimane said sayonara to Saint Laurent, and Raf Simons walked away from his Dior. Ennio and Carlo Capasa sold and exited Costume National. Alber Elbaz was canned by Lanvin. Most recently, Francisco Costa and Italo Zucchelli left Calvin Klein. And inevitably, there are the rumors of more disruptive departures: Will Phoebe Philo file out of Celine? Will Karl Lagerfeld step down after 33 years at Chanel?

    Despite fashion’s prideful embrace of novelty, none of this is new. Fashion memories are short, but Marc Jacobs’s 2013 departure from Louis Vuitton after 13 years as its designer was an earlier omen of how brutally unsentimental his business had become, and long before that, in 2008, Donna Karan was effectively sidelined by LVMH, which had bought her eponymous company for more than $600 million in 2001.

    Though Karan was allowed to save face and retain the title of lead designer, fashion insiders whispered that she’d been banned from the design studio. Her official retirement in 2015 also marked the end of her signature line. It’s likely that in the year since, her wealth has been more of a salve than her continuing role as an advisor to DKNY, the last remaining shred of her once glorious empire.

    At least Karan doesn’t have to worry about the fashion calendar anymore. That’s another straw man argument fashion is having with itself. Some brands have decided that shows for buyers and press held months in advance of clothes arriving in stores are obsolete and the solution is “Show today, Sell tomorrow.”

    Most of those brands sell basics, though, or else they are vertically integrated companies that control the process from factory to retail, obviating the need for long lead times to source fabrics and yarns, refine patterns, produce samples to show buyers, gauge the market and manufacture accordingly.

    Designers who already produce multiple lines, one atop the next, are apoplectic over that idea. Says one who asks not to be identified in order to stay in favor with the bean-counters, “You can’t do a small show for the press and a big show for the public four months later. You’ll have already moved on creatively. And if you’re any good, you’ll hate the old stuff.”

    The public may not realize it yet, but it’s lost its passion for prevailing fashion. “People don’t care anymore,” that designer continues. But what about that giant Givenchy show on the Hudson last year? Didn’t people love it? “Sure, as spectacle,” she continues. “But I heard it cost $10 million. They wouldn’t like it so much if they understood they’re paying for it every time they buy overpriced goods.”

    “People perceive they’re not getting value for their money, so they’ve stopped buying the stuff,” agrees Dana Thomas, whose decade-old book Deluxe first predicted luxury fashion’s fall. Thomas charges fashion brands with over-expansion. “Customers are sick of seeing the same stores on every street corner. They’ve saturated the market to the point that luxury feels common. That’s the antithesis of everything these brands are based on. People want something nobody has. What’s cool is what nobody else has heard of. Louis Vuitton is now as common as Samsonite. If you’re pulling a Vuitton roller case through an airport, you’re not living the Vuitton life.”

    Making matters worse, any longtime luxury customer will tell you, quality has gone down while prices have skyrocketed. A basic Vuitton weekend bag, Thomas says, has more than doubled in price in the years since Deluxe was published. “And certainly, my income hasn’t doubled,” she adds.

    “Luxury brands have alienated the luxury customer,” says Cameron Silver, founder of Decades, the posh Los Angeles vintage clothing store, who’s watched as bloggers and celebrities who either borrow or get clothes free have replaced paying customers in the hearts, minds, and front rows of fashion’s nabobs.

    “Runway clothes are made for magazines or loans,” Silver continues. “Customers are low on the totem pole and they’re starting to rebel. It started in the mid-’90s with the red carpet and celebrities. Who wants to pay $250,000 for a couture dress they’ve seen loaned to some actress six months earlier?”

    The same goes for ready-to-wear, which, thanks to the Internet, is also now instantly over-exposed. “By the time it’s in stores, it looks tired,” says Silver. If it ever reaches stores at all. “Most runway pieces never get produced. They’re marketing exercises. The legacy brands aren’t in the fashion business anymore. They’re selling handbags and lipstick. The quirkiness of luxury, the artisanal experience, has largely been lost.”

    The good news is that the digital culture that’s killing fashion-as-we-know-it could, perversely, prove fashion’s salvation. Alongside the paid bloggers and pampered celebrities flogging $3,000 branded goods on Instagram are just plain folks taking selfies of themselves in outfits that reflect individual creativity, not the needs of vampire corporations sucking quarterly profits from purses and perfume bottles. Luxury fashion may be walking dead but self-expression through dress won’t die with it. Hans Christian Anderson had that right. The procession will go on.
    Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

    StyleZeitgeist Magazine
  • BlacknWhite
    Senior Member
    • Apr 2014
    • 272

    #2
    Fashion should've never been something publicly/privately invested in with expectations of constant growth. A brand getting by without struggles is the best thing the people running it can hope for, not constant growth in sales that beat the last quarter. I think Alber Elbaz said it best, that fashion today is nothing like it once was, a small family business, or something along those lines that he has said multiple times in various Q&As.

    Words like client, to glorify and separate the luxury consumer from others don't even make sense anymore; it has lost its intimacy among most brands. If you really want something personal now a days, a tailor/seamstress, leather maker is your best bet, not from a brand led by some sensitive pretentious prick, who gets his feelings hurt because someone didn't shower him with praise online or in magazines. God forbid someone actually doesn't like every aspect of what you do.
    Last edited by BlacknWhite; 04-28-2016, 08:20 AM.

    Comment

    • DudleyGray
      Senior Member
      • Jul 2013
      • 1143

      #3
      I can't imagine being a consumer of traditional luxury right now. There are a million different 'unique' pieces and aesthetics being thrown at you everywhere constantly, and everything seems to be in style in a postmodern way that nothing can be out of style, except the worry that what one buys could go out of style persists. One thing is as good as the next, because they're all better than the other thing depending only on perspective, and the decision to choose any one thing seems arbitrary. I wouldn't be surprised if this doesn't help people buy in at higher prices.
      bandcamp | facebook | youtube

      Comment

      • Faust
        kitsch killer
        • Sep 2006
        • 37849

        #4
        Originally posted by BlacknWhite View Post
        Fashion should've never been something publicly/privately invested in with expectations of constant growth. A brand getting by without struggles is the best thing the people running it can hope for, not constant growth in sales that beat the last quarter. I think Alber Elbaz said it best, that fashion today is nothing like it once was, a small family business, or something along those lines that he has said multiple times in various Q&As.

        Words like client, to glorify and separate the luxury consumer from others don't even make sense anymore; it has lost its intimacy among most brands. If you really want something personal now a days, a tailor/seamstress, leather maker is your best bet, not from a brand led by some sensitive pretentious prick, who gets his feelings hurt because someone didn't shower him with praise online or in magazines. God forbid someone actually doesn't like every aspect of what you do.
        That's the ticket
        Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

        StyleZeitgeist Magazine

        Comment

        • Geoffrey B. Small
          Senior Member
          • Nov 2007
          • 618

          #5
          I think a lot of things, and ideas of what things are, are getting mixed up here. The terms luxury, fashion etc.. may not really mean much to real consumers of real things that merit real prices. Value is truly the bottom line, and that is proving more true than ever. The fact that the majority of the fashion and so-called "luxury" business has been taken over by publicly-traded corporations who have allowed their financial people to run things, from media to design to production, into the ground is their problem. The fact that their incessant need for scaling and a proportionally large size market also negatively affects the value of their offering to the customer over the long-term, and that that customer is beginning to know about this, is also their problem. It's simply a case of the wrong business model being applied to both situation and market. The ongoing reality that everyone must get into their head is that the middle class, including the upper middle-class is shrinking in this world, and so the mass-market for luxury is also shrinking--and that is the key growth vehicle for the majority of the luxury corporate holding companies. Unless the majority of these people get more active in their political systems very quickly (which they probably won't thanks to the same media that keep them focused on shopping and consuming instead of their real interests and concerns)... this powerful trend of re-distribution of wealth towards a rapidly growing concentration of it at the very very top of the pyramid, will continue and there will be less and less customers for an LV vinyl coated handbag around the world. Bernard Arnault who owns LV however, and the 1500 or so members of the billionaire class and their circles, will continue to grow and get ever more richer and ever more powerful. With TTIP and TTP closer and closer to getting passed by legislators working in secret as much and as quickly as possible under our very noses, they will soon be able to supersede nation-states in power, and take over continents. And history will look back on this time as one of major change in how the world is being run. This is what is really going on. But luxury ain't going to go away folks. Those people at the top can afford to buy anything.

          But they get bored easily, and they do not buy what you and I can see and have any sort of access to on a given day. And they do not want what others already have.

          So "bigness" as a company that aims to serve them suddenly becomes an extreme disadvantage. But for those very few, still left or coming up, who have paid the price to really learn and master something to an art form, and who are able to continue doing it at whatever price is needed to make it really extraordinary, and again, of exceptional value (and that means it is worth more than its price)--and that alone on both counts is very, very rare these days-- there are customers out there who can and will buy it. Believe me. The fact that the writer of the article is oblivious to this merely evidences his or her lack of research on the subject.

          Comment

          • Faust
            kitsch killer
            • Sep 2006
            • 37849

            #6
            Originally posted by kklump26
            I'm not exactly sure who high-end luxury brands sell to. Ever since actors started replacing models, these companies lend and gift their products to the only people who can afford to buy them.
            That's not true at all. There are 450,000 millionaires in the state of New York alone.
            Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

            StyleZeitgeist Magazine

            Comment

            • cjbreed
              Senior Member
              • Feb 2009
              • 2711

              #7
              thats a great post by GBS. kind if ends the thread really...

              but here is a thought i had today. it is possible that hedi slimane may be going to chanel to head up a menswear line. its safe to assume that prices will likely stay in line with the rest of chanel's offerings. that should equate to about double what slp menswear sells for currently.

              now, hedi slimane completely revitalized the saint laurent label. sales exploded and every single pop celebrity imaginable is seen and photographed wearing slp. i imagine that once he is at chanel this trend will continue and possibly increase as far as celebrities and instagram ballers are concerned. BUT, i am very curious to see how well it will perform at the retail level.

              the demand for haute couture menswear is minimal. and thats not really what hedi does anyway. so if the plan is to essentially keep doing what he is doing now but charge double, i wonder how that will pan out? because the double whammy of consumer envy and lust that a chanel+hedi slimane branding combo would elicit is really kind of unprecedented i think, given the heritage and $$$$ value of chanel and hedi's of the moment pop star status...
              dying and coming back gives you considerable perspective

              Comment

              • scanner
                Member
                • Mar 2015
                • 85

                #8
                Originally posted by cjbreed View Post
                thats a great post by GBS. kind if ends the thread really...

                but here is a thought i had today. it is possible that hedi slimane may be going to chanel to head up a menswear line. its safe to assume that prices will likely stay in line with the rest of chanel's offerings. that should equate to about double what slp menswear sells for currently.

                now, hedi slimane completely revitalized the saint laurent label. sales exploded and every single pop celebrity imaginable is seen and photographed wearing slp. i imagine that once he is at chanel this trend will continue and possibly increase as far as celebrities and instagram ballers are concerned. BUT, i am very curious to see how well it will perform at the retail level.

                the demand for haute couture menswear is minimal. and thats not really what hedi does anyway. so if the plan is to essentially keep doing what he is doing now but charge double, i wonder how that will pan out? because the double whammy of consumer envy and lust that a chanel+hedi slimane branding combo would elicit is really kind of unprecedented i think, given the heritage and $$$$ value of chanel and hedi's of the moment pop star status...

                Chanel isn't a publicly held company so I doubt they are too worried about not being able to sell loads of menswear. Like Hermes, they are more interested in Brand Heritage and the combination of Hedi & Chanel is more powerful than simply making a profit on some cotton. Hedi and Karl both want luxury to be out of reach to the masses. To this day, I think Chanel only produces about 50 pieces of each item worldwide and only for sale in boutiques. I think they are more interested in people lusting over the brand and buying perfumes or trinkets. Hermes sells $900 t shirts and $15k dollar baseball jackets, most of which don't sell out and they seem to be doing just fine.

                Comment

                • Faust
                  kitsch killer
                  • Sep 2006
                  • 37849

                  #9
                  Yep. All the Chanel luxury is for show to push cosmetics, perfumes, and glasses.
                  Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                  StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                  Comment

                  • mrbeuys
                    Senior Member
                    • May 2008
                    • 2313

                    #10
                    Originally posted by Faust View Post
                    Yep. All the Chanel luxury is for show to push cosmetics, perfumes, and glasses.
                    With the fine jewellery and watches falling somewhere in between. But is menswear at CHANEL really an incentive for Hedi? Especially after SLP?
                    Hi. I like your necklace. - It's actually a rape whistle, but the whistle part fell off.

                    Comment

                    • ES3K
                      Senior Member
                      • Oct 2008
                      • 530

                      #11
                      I think he'll take over Karl's Position at some point. Unless Karl really is an immortal vampire.
                      Menswear is just some kind of soft start.

                      At least the CHANEL logo is already sans-serif.

                      Comment

                      • Faust
                        kitsch killer
                        • Sep 2006
                        • 37849

                        #12
                        Originally posted by mrbeuys View Post
                        With the fine jewellery and watches falling somewhere in between. But is menswear at CHANEL really an incentive for Hedi? Especially after SLP?
                        Yep, and bags. I think it might be an incentive for a man with a bottomless ego. I can see a million young Chinese lining up for that. And making a couple of men's Chanel scents - why not?
                        Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                        StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                        Comment

                        • zamb
                          Senior Member
                          • Nov 2006
                          • 5834

                          #13
                          If Hedi goes to Chanel, he would go down in History as the designer to have helmed the 3 most revered houses in French Fashion

                          YSL, Dior and Chanel. I think that alone is incentive enough.
                          Coupled with the fact that before him, none of these 3 houses really had anything notable in menswear to speak of.

                          Chanel has the perfect framework and template for him to develop a label around
                          Couples with Karl's undying adoration of him......
                          “You know,” he says, with a resilient smile, “it is a hard world for poets.”
                          .................................................. .......................


                          Zam Barrett Spring 2017 Now in stock

                          Comment

                          • zamb
                            Senior Member
                            • Nov 2006
                            • 5834

                            #14
                            One should read this to get a better understanding:

                            “You know,” he says, with a resilient smile, “it is a hard world for poets.”
                            .................................................. .......................


                            Zam Barrett Spring 2017 Now in stock

                            Comment

                            • cjbreed
                              Senior Member
                              • Feb 2009
                              • 2711

                              #15
                              Originally posted by scanner View Post
                              Chanel isn't a publicly held company so I doubt they are too worried about not being able to sell loads of menswear. Like Hermes, they are more interested in Brand Heritage and the combination of Hedi & Chanel is more powerful than simply making a profit on some cotton. Hedi and Karl both want luxury to be out of reach to the masses. To this day, I think Chanel only produces about 50 pieces of each item worldwide and only for sale in boutiques. I think they are more interested in people lusting over the brand and buying perfumes or trinkets. Hermes sells $900 t shirts and $15k dollar baseball jackets, most of which don't sell out and they seem to be doing just fine.
                              that makes sense. and i do get how the bags + cosmetics + perfumes + glasses segment of the business works. (the chanel cosmetics counter at my local neiman marcus does well over 2 million annually and its a counter about 4 ft long. thats a lot of lipstick)

                              i don't think chanel is concerned. everything they make that has hedi attached to it will likely sell out. especially since it will almost certainly be very limited production and very very hyped. it just prompts an interesting thought experiment given the players involved.

                              i am interested in this from the consumer point of view. like when gas hits $4 a gallon, thats a critical number where consumers will begin to change their behaviors. up until then it is tolerable.

                              so at what number does the same pair of distressed jeans become unsellable? its not 800. is it 1800? maybe. if the production is limited enough, and the designer is hyped enough, it may never hit that number

                              an important element here is limited production and hyper exclusivity. hermes has always been hermes and can charge what it charges. same with chanel. the quality is there and the value is established. but if i know these jeans are the same hedi slimane jeans i bought last year, are they worth $1000 more because of the chanel label? and how will the fact that it will be the most sought after item ever once all the celebs and rich kids of instagram are flaunting it impact regular people? will they start missing a car payment to buy a jacket?

                              its just an interesting idea to me....
                              dying and coming back gives you considerable perspective

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