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How Hip-Hop Stole Rock's Thunder

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  • Faust
    kitsch killer
    • Sep 2006
    • 37852

    How Hip-Hop Stole Rock's Thunder

    HOW HIP-HOP STOLE ROCK'S THUNDER

    Full Op-Ed on www.sz-mag.com


    Photo by Adam Katz Sinding of www.le-21eme.com

    Some time ago in Paris at a men’s show of the cult Japanese label Julius I found myself sitting next to the singer Usher. As I was chatting with his companion, Grace, I could not help but wonder what Usher was doing in a dark, cavernous space, looking at the goth aesthetic of black leathers and drapey wools that Tatsuro Horikawa, Julius’s designer, sent down the runway. And, I also wondered, where are the rockers?

    The history of rock-and-roll had always seemed inseparable from the history of style. Frank Zappa once pronounced, “No change in musical style will survive unless it is accompanied by a change in clothing style.” Until recently this rang true, from the neat suits of the early Beatles to Kurt Cobain’s dowdy cardigans. Rock stars were style stars. Their styles were disparate but they all exhibited a powerful sense of charisma, spawning countless imitators. Punk alone has been a lasting influence; witness the last year’s exhibit at the Costume Institute at the Metropolitan Museum of Art in New York.

    But something happened during the last decade. With the rise of indie-rock, rock music has become diffused and tame. Hitherto, rock was the sound of rebellion, but all of a sudden there seemed nothing to rebel against. Hip-hop, on the other hand, still had the aggression of the ghetto, even though in substance it was very quickly moving into the mainstream. It had the energy that few contemporary rock acts could match. Rappers figured out the same thing that rockers figured out before them – rebellion is charisma.

    Rock musicians of today are by and large a self-conscious breed. The feeling of grandeur, of exposing yourself emotionally, is largely gone. You can hear it in their music and you can see it in their dress. Rock star style died the day Franz Ferdinand donned Dior Homme suits. When you wear a garment traditionally reserved for the faceless agents of establishment, no amount of post-modernist irony – sartorial irony in this case – can save you, because at the end of the day irony is a defeatist attitude.

    Last year, Hedi Slimane, now busy turning Saint-Laurent into another youth and rock-n-roll fantasy, tapped a bunch of rock stars, such as Courtney Love and Marilyn Manson, for his ads. The only problem was that every one of those musicians had peaked a decade ago and is not that culturally relevant to most young people today.

    Hip-hop stars poured unto the breach left open by rockers in no time. Like it or not, today’s Iggy Pop and David Bowie are Kanye West and A$AP Rocky. If this sounds jarring, it’s because this is a fairly new phenomenon. But I know that when the fashion paparazzi prick up their ears before a fashion show, it’s a rap star making an entrance. These men travel to Paris to see men’s shows – which bespeaks a genuine interest in fashion as an expression of personal style – as opposed to the likes of Mick Jagger, who are dragged to women’s shows as arm candy for their girlfriends. And this January, it wasn’t a rock star I witnessed prowling the racks of the Rick Owens showroom in Paris – it was A$AP Rocky, accompanied by Michele Lamy, Owens’s wife. As we briefly chatted outside the showroom, the rapper seemed completely in his own element. (THE REST IS HERE)
    Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

    StyleZeitgeist Magazine
  • Lois Grüveltner
    Senior Member
    • Jul 2010
    • 204

    #2
    Amen Faust !

    When I read this it was like reading my own mind. - This has been my ambivalence with both fashion and music for longer than I can remember and the evolution - or lack of same has only become worse every year and is today exactly as you describe it. - And this is only the beginning - just look how inconsequential the sz style can be when it's worn by Kanye West and A$AP Rocky or young asian rich boys that lives to show them self off on Instagram. (No offense to Asian people!)

    The last Rock era and everything it comes with died in 90's and there will never be anything slightly so significant again in this global and technical exploded world where exhaustions doesn't breath.

    Comment

    • upsilonkng
      Senior Member
      • May 2010
      • 874

      #3
      what an ignorant racist statement... (no offense to ignorant racist people!)

      Comment

      • i-d-g
        Senior Member
        • Sep 2012
        • 113

        #4
        Originally posted by Lois Grüveltner View Post
        Amen Faust !

        When I read this it was like reading my own mind. - This has been my ambivalence with both fashion and music for longer than I can remember and the evolution - or lack of same has only become worse every year and is today exactly as you describe it. - And this is only the beginning - just look how inconsequential the sz style can be when it's worn by Kanye West and A$AP Rocky or young asian rich boys that lives to show them self off on Instagram. (No offense to Asian people!)
        I'm pretty sure all different kinds of people show off on instagram..
        “Man has somehow always feared this search, and I fear it even now. Suppose all man ever does is search for the reason, crosses oceans, sacrifices his life in the search; but to search it out, actually to find it, he’s afraid. For he senses that once he finds it, there will be nothing to search for.”

        Comment

        • Lois Grüveltner
          Senior Member
          • Jul 2010
          • 204

          #5
          My statement was not pointed to be racist!

          Comment

          • franz
            Senior Member
            • Mar 2011
            • 221

            #6
            Again, great article!

            I loved it, and so did my friends, be they interested in fashion and/or hip-hop.
            Originally posted by Faust
            True story. Dude walks into Hostem, looks around, says, "I like how you took this whole All Saints thing and ran with it."

            Comment

            • trentk
              Senior Member
              • Oct 2010
              • 709

              #7
              Ben Frost is more popular now than he used to be, and still fresh. Oren Ambarchi / Keiji Haino / Jim O'Rourke's In A Flash Everything Comes Together and There is No Need for a Subject is still today one of my favorite albums and is listed at Rock on discogs. It's an extreme stretch to call this ( http://simonbarker.bandcamp.com/albu...turn-of-spring ) rock, but Bae Il Dong's volcanic vocals have something in common with rock. It's also a stretch to call Keith Fullerton Whitman's Disingenuity B/W Disingenuousness rock, but it definitely appeals to rock fans. Rock isn't dead, just in various degrees of mutation.

              I'm not into 99% of rap, but totally support stuff like this: https://soundcloud.com/ftureable/monster .
              "He described this initial impetus as like discovering that they both were looking at the same intriguing specific tropical fish, with attempts to understand it leading to a huge ferocious formalism he characterizes as a shark that leapt out of the tank."

              Comment

              • apathy!
                Senior Member
                • Jan 2014
                • 393

                #8
                Good article.


                Originally posted by Lois Grüveltner View Post
                Amen Faust !

                When I read this it was like reading my own mind. - This has been my ambivalence with both fashion and music for longer than I can remember and the evolution - or lack of same has only become worse every year and is today exactly as you describe it. - And this is only the beginning - just look how inconsequential the sz style can be when it's worn by Kanye West and A$AP Rocky or young asian rich boys that lives to show them self off on Instagram. (No offense to Asian people!)

                The last Rock era and everything it comes with died in 90's and there will never be anything slightly so significant again in this global and technical exploded world where exhaustions doesn't breath.
                lol this post is terrible.

                1) trying to imply something about priveleged Asians being less allowed to wear some nebulous style than privileged white people.

                2) trying to describe rock music as something incomparably significant.

                Comment

                • Lois Grüveltner
                  Senior Member
                  • Jul 2010
                  • 204

                  #9
                  I'm not trying to make anybody less allowed to do anything. I was taking the Asians as an example cause I think that they move a lot faster in fashion, that's all!

                  Comment

                  • radio-aktivität
                    Senior Member
                    • Jan 2011
                    • 188

                    #10
                    Good article!

                    Now I thought about the subcultures I was in before and concluded that in some Rock groups, mainly metal people, a fashion angst exists. Ten years ago or so, my peers were very radical when it came to metal. To them, to them, the term fashion was synonymous with mass market, the establishment, the industry and all the other devils. And in a way, they still are. With leather jackets, rock prints and boots being so mainstream (and in high fashion simultaneously, just look Raf, Undercover, SLP, et cetera…) nowadays, their old uniform of resistance was adapted. I really see some old friends suffer from that! (not literally, of course)

                    What I also find important is that in some subcultures, the precise term fashion is negatively approached. It’s like dating someone, but really not being in a relationship. Some people just fear words, fear to precisely describe circumstances. They feel alright as long as things are vague.
                    So maybe it’s a problem of communication.

                    Comment

                    • upsilonkng
                      Senior Member
                      • May 2010
                      • 874

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Lois Grüveltner View Post
                      I'm not trying to make anybody less allowed to do anything. I was taking the Asians as an example cause I think that they move a lot faster in fashion, that's all!
                      keep diggin urself a larger hole... so now the Asians and only the Asians follow trends faster than anyone else... cool, good to know. I guess all white people that have instagram are only doing heavy emotional stuff and not chasing trends or making sz style irreverent. I think i forgot to check off on that when i signed up for instagram....
                      what's worse than a flat out racist who doesn't think they are????

                      Comment

                      • Lois Grüveltner
                        Senior Member
                        • Jul 2010
                        • 204

                        #12
                        My statement has apparently turned into the silly conclusion that I'm a racist in any kind .. - I was trying to prove a point sorry to see it got misunderstood. I don't want to keep this going, don't think this great article deserves to be filled with that. What you upsilonkg think about me I really don't gear about, I have nothing against you but if you really think this was pointed to be a racist statement what can I do about that..

                        I can see I didn't express myself clearly enough and this I will remember to do in the future.

                        Comment

                        • BlacknWhite
                          Senior Member
                          • Apr 2014
                          • 272

                          #13
                          Originally posted by Faust View Post
                          Last year, Hedi Slimane, now busy turning Saint-Laurent into another youth and rock-n-roll fantasy, tapped a bunch of rock stars, such as Courtney Love and Marilyn Manson, for his ads. The only problem was that every one of those musicians had peaked a decade ago and is not that culturally relevant to most young people today.
                          This.


                          Originally posted by Lois Grüveltner View Post
                          can be when it's worn by Kanye West and A$AP Rocky or young asian rich boys that lives to show them self off on Instagram. (No offense to Asian people!)

                          The last Rock era and everything it comes with died in 90's and there will never be anything slightly so significant again in this global and technical exploded world where exhaustions doesn't breath.
                          I didn't find your comment racist, as it's more of a generalization of one social media platform. However, this showing off, can't the same be said about the nature of WAYWT threads, all over the internet? Just think about the similarities for a moment.

                          Don't know about anything else ever going to be "slightly so significant". This seems far more as an opinion of someone who possibly listens exclusively to rock.
                          Honestly, I don't think rock was ever as wide spread, influential, and culturally relevant as say, pop. Michael Jackson, king of pop him self, was more relevant on a global level than any rock star ever was. The man is dead, and his style, his music, all are still relevant today.

                          Comment

                          • Faust
                            kitsch killer
                            • Sep 2006
                            • 37852

                            #14
                            Well, Blacknwhite, that is simply untrue. I'll start withy the Beatles, and maybe not even need continue.

                            For the record - as many of you may already know - I am neither a lover of rap nor a hater of rock. Quite the reverse, actually I am merely commenting on what I see. Maybe this will be a wake up call to rockers!
                            Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                            StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                            Comment

                            • apathy!
                              Senior Member
                              • Jan 2014
                              • 393

                              #15
                              The reason that fashion and hip hop have become attached is that hip hop is the genre with the most hype and creativity going into it at the moment. It's youthful. There really is no waking rock up at this point.

                              just to clarify my muddled earlier post: Lois, I was more disagreeing with your statements about Rock music. I think that the genralisation of Asian youths is probably valid as they are more brand conscious.

                              Comment

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