Carol Christian Poell

[Avantster]

If I'm not mistaken her face is simply being distorted by clear masking tape.

Poell only considers the body as volume, a three dimensional form. He doesn't consider the identity of the wearer and in fact wants to strip away the identity of the model and focus the attention on the garments rather than the person wearing them. This was done in a previous collection by completely covering the face.
IMO in this case it's similar. The 'scars' echoing the stitching, is a reflection of this attitude - the garment is more important than the wearer, so much so that he's prepared to 'disfigure' her image to maintain aesthetic continuity.

This is not to say that Poell does not want wearers to inject their own personality when wearing his garments, but he wants this personality to come from the wearer themselves, not from the model wearing his garments in a lookbook.

Thanks for the pics, Kev. Would love to see what else you've got!

[Johnny]

i find the sellotape over the face thing to be really third rate. it's the kind of thing undergraduates do when they're out on the piss, for a laugh. it's really clumsy. moreoever, it doesn't create annonimity, in the sense of allowing us to focus on the clothes - it makes us look at the disfigured woman modelling them. it doesn't seem to be celebrating different-ness or imperfection in the way that Galliano did, it's just a bit of gratuitous fake scarring. it may echo the scarring on the clothes, but why?

[Chant]

More interesting is imo the echo between the pleats of the dress and these of the armpit.

[Faust]

You have a good eye, Chant

[maldoror]

i find the sellotape over the face thing to be really third rate. it's the kind of thing undergraduates do when they're out on the piss, for a laugh. it's really clumsy.

douglas gordon - monster reborn

[philip nod]

yeah, i hate that piece...in some ways gordon has made a princely sum doing third rate work, especially the body of work with his hands fucking each other or whatever bore it was. when on however, he is a master.

[Johnny]

Yes I agree with that re Gordon. I saw his big retrosepctive in Avignon in the sunmmer, which I enjoyed on the whole, but some of it is very banal. however, don't know what you'd consider on form philip, but i loved the big elephants videos, kind of mesmerising.

[Chant]

yeah i feel that simply put, and i think i said this before, carol hates women. his work seeks to destroy a women beauty and isolate and disfigure her attractiveness. thats poorly put, but if theres a side of the mountain to fall on, it aint the one that wants to make a woman more beautiful. i guess i'm trying to say that with the menswear its about fucking with the clothes rarely about fucking with the model and the clothes. the womenwears seems designed to incorporate a tortured look and person. maybe somebody can help me say what i'm trying to say, i've never known quite how to put it

Blacksuit whispers, surprised, to my ear : does fucking the model not implicate to remove her clothes ?

[philip nod]

such more for erasing my post
i didn't say fucking the model, which i'm sure carol is n't interested in.
fucking with the model.

and i love that gordon elephant installation.

[Chant]

CCP is an Austrian fellow. He learnt at least something from the Aktionismus :

I don't care about CCP' personal feelings about women, I'm interested in his design/art, and I wouldn't say that the woman in not attractive.
The way is transformed her face reminds me of Joseh-Jospehine, the half-man half-woman freak in Tod Brownings' movie.

[laika]

I really hate the women's stuff. There is something deeply misogynistic and hateful about all of it...no thanks, Carol.

[Johnny]

I really hate the women's stuff. There is something deeply misogynistic and hateful about all of it...no thanks, Carol.

This is eactly what I think, but thought that it might be patronising to point it out. I think, to be fair, Carol realised he was rubbish at it, so he stopped, but i have no idea where he thought he was going with it.

[laika]

I don't care about CCP' personal feelings about women, I'm interested in his design/art.

I don't understand how you can separate these things, in this case (if ever, in fashion?). He clearly designs very differently for women than for men, which makes the issue of sex unavoidable.

Did not see your erased post before, pnod, but i think we are on the same page...

[Johnny]

I don't understand how you can separate these things, in this case (if ever, in fashion?).

I'd like to hear this.

[laika]

This is eactly what I think, but thought that it might be patronising to point it out. I think, to be fair, Carol realised he was rubbish at it, so he stopped, but i have no idea where he thought he was going with it.

I hope you're right. But then, I also remember reading in an interview that he thinks women only care about making their bums look smaller. A [surprisingly] dumb comment from such a thoughtful designer...

edit: maybe we need another thread for this then, johnny