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  • Faust
    kitsch killer
    • Sep 2006
    • 37852

    Raf Simons Leaving Dior

    Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

    StyleZeitgeist Magazine
  • Law
    Senior Member
    • Dec 2013
    • 513

    #2
    Another article:

    Despite huge success, the star designer is walking away from his post as Creative Director for Christian Dior.

    Comment

    • PurpleJesuss
      Senior Member
      • May 2014
      • 188

      #3
      super WTF to me. too much pressure/work? probably wants to focus on his own label. i hope Dior adopts the gucci/balenciaga method but i doubt it.

      Comment

      • Faust
        kitsch killer
        • Sep 2006
        • 37852

        #4
        Absolutely too much pressure. I know from the people close to him.
        Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

        StyleZeitgeist Magazine

        Comment

        • ES3K
          Senior Member
          • Oct 2008
          • 530

          #5
          Don't know about sales... but to me Raf at Dior always seemed very strange, not like Rick Owens taking over Dsquared, but kind of a misunderstanding in a way.

          Comment

          • BlacknWhite
            Senior Member
            • Apr 2014
            • 272

            #6
            Lets hope this means he'll bring his brand back to the old days with all the futuristic ideas.

            Comment

            • Faust
              kitsch killer
              • Sep 2006
              • 37852

              #7
              My thoughts
              Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

              StyleZeitgeist Magazine

              Comment

              • jap808
                Senior Member
                • Dec 2012
                • 377

                #8
                Originally posted by Faust View Post
                Thanks for sharing: really interesting and on-point. Agree.

                Comment

                • zamb
                  Senior Member
                  • Nov 2006
                  • 5834

                  #9
                  Originally posted by Faust View Post

                  this is possibly one of the first articles you have written were I disagree with your position.
                  While i do see where you are coming from and you do make some valid points, they do not negate the real issues affecting the fashion industry that has allowed many to conclude that the system is broken.

                  By broken it doesn't mean some are not succeeding. It is broken because for all of the excess available to the designer, he simply cannot put it to its best use and for all of the money and fame, designers at the top end of being something other than.............a designer

                  let me address only this parapraph for a second:

                  "Because, where is the other side of the story in Menkes’s account? The very high salaries that Raf Simons and Alexander Wang received, the astounding PR exposure for themselves and by extension for their namesake brands, the chance to work with the best artisans in the world and to play with seemingly unlimited budgets to stage fashion spectacles of the highest order, the access to the top of society – hell, being at the top of society? Please show me a designer who will say no to that in exchange for a grueling schedule for a few years or more. No, the fashion system is not crashing – it is alive and well, because there is no shortage of designers who will not want to try their luck in the gilded corporate cages."


                  Unless a designer are in fashion purely for the love of money, to grab as much of it as you possibly can, and have your name become as big as you can, only to fail miserably in a few years, one cannot help but be frustrated if I have available to me, the best fabrics and the best artisans and I never have the time necessary to develop my best ideas, to experiment and explore the possibilities and to create an enduring legacy that establishes me as a truly great designer.
                  Luxury without the opportunity to enjoy it and to put it to good use can become a very loathsome thing.
                  Of course there are always a fresh set of designers lining up, no one is kidding themselves, but are these "fresh set" any good?

                  Can we say the newer ones coming up are, or will be anywhere near the caliber of Chalayan, McQueen, Margiela, Ann, Helmut or even Theyskens at the height of his powers at Rochas?



                  And this brings me to another thing that I have observed. Some of the greatest designers we have seen, developed their best work at a time when they had very little, when they were forced to create within the restraints of small budgets. At such time, they hadless demands on them and they had the time and clarity of thought to focus on designing and executing rather than endless Instagram posting, endless interviews and meetings and all the bullshit that now comes with being a high fashion designer.
                  This system has forced people like Margiela and Ann into early retirement. Sent Decarnin into a nervous breakdown.|

                  I admire Raf for walking away. we have too much collections from too much brands with an endless amount of it being dumped because of overproduction.
                  the System is indeed broken, even if it may be taped up, glued together and still able to give some of what it was intended to give.
                  “You know,” he says, with a resilient smile, “it is a hard world for poets.”
                  .................................................. .......................


                  Zam Barrett Spring 2017 Now in stock

                  Comment

                  • Faust
                    kitsch killer
                    • Sep 2006
                    • 37852

                    #10
                    Zam, but Raf and Wang have not failed. Dior and Balenciaga saw steady increase in sales. The collections in general were well-received (except the first one by Wang).

                    On high level, there is similar pressure in every industry, whether sports or Wall St. It's the Faustian bargain. No one is twisting anyone's hands. They know what they are getting into.
                    Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                    StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                    Comment

                    • zamb
                      Senior Member
                      • Nov 2006
                      • 5834

                      #11
                      Originally posted by Faust View Post
                      Zam, but Raf and Wang have not failed. Dior and Balenciaga saw steady increase in sales. The collections in general were well-received (except the first one by Wang).
                      Yes, but increase in sales over a 2-3 year period for designers who are tested and have a huge PR machine from the hiring brand behind them is not surprising. we are not suggesting that the designers fail, we are talking about the system being broken. these people are not novices and we have to wonder what is wrong where a designer life Raf would get possibly one of the most secure Jobs in fashion with all the perks possible and after 3 years say HELL NO to it.

                      I always felt like Wang at Baleniciaga was a bad hire so I cant even talk about that. I have nothing against him but I just didn't think his type of fashion represented what the house stood for


                      Originally posted by Faust View Post
                      On high level, there is similar pressure in every industry, whether sports or Wall St. It's the Faustian bargain. No one is twisting anyone's hands. They know what they are getting into.
                      Indeed, it is not the pressure that is the issue. It is unreasonable expectations and ultimately frustration. Look at it this way, suppose you had the money to but any kind of food you wanted to eat, the best chef to cook it with the best ingredients, but you had to eat it at such a fast pace you could not savor the taste and flavor and was also expected to figure out a way or forcing it out of your system so you could eat more before having enjoyed what you had just eaten?
                      would that be enjoyable at all, or at a certain point you'd rather eat something ordinary at a pace and enjoy your food and its nutrients?.

                      TGhere may be pressures at top levels of business and industries all over but the reality is that good clothes takes time to make and ideas take time to develop. As a designer I can tell you it the most frustrating thing to make a collection, no matter how well it sells and after you are done you feel like a total fraud because you think the clothes is bullshit and not your best work.

                      this also brings me to your article about unlimited edition. Yes of course unlimited edition, because designers do not have time to design anymore, so anything that sells and sells well can be thrown back to the masses again, so we can focus on the PR, the interviews the Instagram and the endless parties and traveling.
                      No wonder anyone can get up tomorrow and become a designer, because now the emperor doesn't need to have (or know how to make) clothes
                      “You know,” he says, with a resilient smile, “it is a hard world for poets.”
                      .................................................. .......................


                      Zam Barrett Spring 2017 Now in stock

                      Comment

                      • Faust
                        kitsch killer
                        • Sep 2006
                        • 37852

                        #12
                        Well, I never said the system was good :-) Just inquiring what it means when it's said "the system is broken." Bad and broken are two different things.
                        Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                        StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                        Comment

                        • Maison d'Ashraf
                          Junior Member
                          • Jan 2013
                          • 28

                          #13
                          i) I agree with Faust; big fashion houses are killing it with revs/profit/stock appreciation with the exception of Prada. But I believe based on recent shows in Milan, there might be a good turnaround story for Italian houses/designers and hopefully for Prada too. Problem with Prada at the moment is their leather goods which is behind many of the other leaders.

                          ii) We have yet to hear from Raf will mostly like not hear anything for another few years, so at the moment all we can infer is from his "close friends" and people at LV, who from the most part based on articles, etc, have nothing but praise to say about Raf. And from my understanding, they tried very hard including Arnault to keep Raf at Dior.

                          iii) I think for Raf this was a personal test. I don't think he saw himself there for a long tenure. In my opinion, he wanted to answer maybe the critics and himself and see if he can be successful and do couture. For me, he succeeded, and in doing so revitalized the house.

                          iv) https://i-d.vice.com/en_gb/article/w...ll-raf-do-next

                          v) Curious to hear what Tim Blanks has to say; I know he is a huge fan of Raf. Have yet to see an article by him.

                          vi) Lastly, I agree look forward to see some great things from eponymous label.

                          Comment

                          • Law
                            Senior Member
                            • Dec 2013
                            • 513

                            #14
                            It turns out Dior isn’t replacing Raf any time soon

                            The company reveals that its next two collection will be designed by its in-house team


                            Comment

                            • Faust
                              kitsch killer
                              • Sep 2006
                              • 37852

                              #15
                              Interesting. I also heard that Raf will stay on as a consultant for a while.
                              Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                              StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                              Comment

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