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OP-ED: HOW GRAILED IS KILLING THE MENSWEAR AVANT-GARDE

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  • Faust
    kitsch killer
    • Sep 2006
    • 37852

    #16
    If you don't have it, you don't have it. Who cares. I do. When I see a garment that is brilliant and I want to know more about the designer, that's the connection. It's not personal, as in you have lunch together. It's a connection between the maker and the user through the garment. It's beautiful. If you don't feel it, your soul is impoverished. Go back to Grailed and hunt for your bargains, since the only thing on your mind is you.
    Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

    StyleZeitgeist Magazine

    Comment

    • superDioplus
      Junior Member
      • Jan 2014
      • 2

      #17
      Been on Grailed for about a year now, it can never surpass eBay in terms of total sales. The fee feels more or less the same. The communication feels more or less the same. It's just another platform with a focus on avant garde/hyped fashion. One thing to avoid lowballers is to list without an offer option, instead, send offers through messages. Don't pay attention if it is not paid, just move on to the next person who asks. That's just my two cents.

      Comment

      • Kuat
        Senior Member
        • Nov 2012
        • 136

        #18
        Originally posted by Faust View Post
        If you don't have it, you don't have it. Who cares. I do. When I see a garment that is brilliant and I want to know more about the designer, that's the connection. It's not personal, as in you have lunch together. It's a connection between the maker and the user through the garment. It's beautiful. If you don't feel it, your soul is impoverished. Go back to Grailed and hunt for your bargains, since the only thing on your mind is you.
        I don't think it's fair to pool everyone into the same pile. One could have that deep understanding of designer's philosophy and have that revered feeling towards a particular designer's work, but use Grailed (or any other marketplace) to find that special piece that you've lucked out on.

        Grailed is a tool. It's does neither good nor bad. It's like a mirror which simply reflects what is already there.

        oulipien also made a good point that one could just as well walk down to any designer store and start grabbing stuff with the highest price tags, oblivious to the garment's real value.

        Comment

        • augustinn
          Member
          • Sep 2013
          • 48

          #19
          Originally posted by byhand View Post
          The one thing about grailed that can make the process of selling annoying is that most buyers wait for price drops no matter what the starting price is. It can become a waiting game of how low can it go. Some watching the item then get pissed when the seller deletes the listing. I'm still getting inquiries for a listing I deleted months ago. There were over 50 people watching it. I did reduce the price twice and then decided that I wasn't interested in selling it for fewer dollars than my last reduced price. I let it linger for a few weeks as it attracted more watchers and then deleted. People act as if I have done something to them by pulling the listing. I see it as the market not wanting the item for a price that would satisfy me, so I pull the listing. I don't blame that on grailed.

          This does make me be a more careful retail consumer. I don't typically buy clothing, at least not expensive clothing, that I don't plan on keeping for the rest of my life or at least wear until it is no longer wearable. This approach keeps me away from fleeting trends and having to deal with selling clothing on the resale market, but I still have a pile of clothing to sell from my more reckless days.

          No polyurethane coated jeans for me.

          ^^ I agree with this commentary on price drops. Grailed has simply been so hyped in the past year that it seems to have attracted a much younger population of participants--and they probably don't have enough money to be shopping a lot of items. Personally, I accept offers regularly that go unpaid and it gets annoying. Instinct tells me that they are the babies who haven't developed their communication/integrity skills yet.

          So I am also experimenting with the way I sell on Grailed, especially since the binding offers option didn't work out smoothly.

          Comment

          • cjbreed
            Senior Member
            • Feb 2009
            • 2712

            #20
            grailed is a shithole.

            its very annoying 90% of the time, but i have had some success selling there, albeit at bargain basement pricing

            BUT, i have had ZERO activity on the same items from the SZ classifieds, so what other option is there? is the 2nd hand market just over?
            dying and coming back gives you considerable perspective

            Comment

            • Anwar
              Member
              • May 2012
              • 47

              #21
              ^ Exactly.. I sold some stuff at wayyy below market value. Everywhere i posted was dead besides grailed...
              Originally posted by Lendar
              The price is a bit high, but the leather is very quality.

              Comment

              • nyarkies
                Member
                • Feb 2012
                • 69

                #22
                Originally posted by cjbreed View Post
                is the 2nd hand market just over?
                It's pretty much alive and growing... it's just being filled with lowballers for the most part.

                Comment

                • curiouscharles
                  Senior Member
                  • Jan 2008
                  • 999

                  #23
                  Originally posted by cjbreed View Post
                  BUT, i have had ZERO activity on the same items from the SZ classifieds, so what other option is there? is the 2nd hand market just over?
                  Originally posted by nyarkies View Post
                  It's pretty much alive and growing... it's just being filled with lowballers for the most part.
                  not sure which one of you is correct, but probably both of you to equal degrees.

                  have definitely noticed a rather significant drop-off in sales on every platform out there, kind of regardless of price-point.

                  not much spending confidence out there these days with the state of things, so i'd like to think if the world doesn't explode over the course of the next year - maybe things will recover?

                  [then again, maybe not]
                  —
                  -

                  Comment

                  • byhand
                    Senior Member
                    • Dec 2011
                    • 273

                    #24
                    Originally posted by Anwar View Post
                    ^ Exactly.. I sold some stuff at wayyy below market value. Everywhere i posted was dead besides grailed...
                    Actually, you help set a market value when you sell something. Everyone watching your listing for the item that sold will now be using that price as a benchmark figure when the same or similar item appears again. The market value for an item is the price at which it can be sold.

                    Comment

                    • skullkid
                      Member
                      • Aug 2015
                      • 49

                      #25
                      i see most of the items here being offered on grailed!

                      Comment

                      • Faust
                        kitsch killer
                        • Sep 2006
                        • 37852

                        #26
                        Originally posted by curiouscharles View Post
                        not sure which one of you is correct, but probably both of you to equal degrees.

                        have definitely noticed a rather significant drop-off in sales on every platform out there, kind of regardless of price-point.

                        not much spending confidence out there these days with the state of things, so i'd like to think if the world doesn't explode over the course of the next year - maybe things will recover?

                        [then again, maybe not]
                        It's more than just that. As mentioned previously, men's fashion itself has changed. Of the prominent labels some have shuttered or changed direction, and the artisanal labels aren't lead by real designers, so they don't change much. Of course the market is saturated. How many LUC knits or m.a.+ aviators does one need? You can put Rick in the same boat, as his runway offerings have gone more and more into space orbit and at the same everyone has gotten their geobaskets and leathers.

                        On a related note, it's the kind of stifling environment into which a label like Vetements can come in and seem like a breath of fresh air to many fashion people.
                        Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                        StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                        Comment

                        • vtlynch
                          Member
                          • Sep 2015
                          • 32

                          #27
                          Originally posted by byhand View Post
                          Actually, you help set a market value when you sell something. Everyone watching your listing for the item that sold will now be using that price as a benchmark figure when the same or similar item appears again. The market value for an item is the price at which it can be sold.

                          thanks for the economics lesson. we really appreciate it.

                          Comment

                          • byhand
                            Senior Member
                            • Dec 2011
                            • 273

                            #28
                            Any time. My pleasure.

                            I wasn't being snarky in that earlier post. There is plenty of evidence that a handful of forum members don't understand basic economics. That knowledge is essential for navigating the contemporary world successfully.

                            Comment

                            • agentred
                              Senior Member
                              • Jul 2009
                              • 143

                              #29
                              Ahoy apologies for bumping an old thread but I've been away for a while and only recently returned to find Grailed (via link on the SZ classifieds in fact).

                              It's an odd duck - great from a technical perspective like Airbnb, which made Craigslist apartment classifieds easier to use, Grailed does this for clothing.

                              However! It is a completely warped view of the clothes themselves - everything is a rare piece, everything is a grail, this brand is hyped... it reduces the feeling of understanding found at SZ or even at a store like Antonioli which curates the selection rather than letting anyone display anything with many exclamation points painted on the rack.

                              So, all told, good to have a nice way of displaying items, but once the hype wears off I wonder how many of the trend chasers with their parents' credit cards will stick around.

                              Comment

                              • Faust
                                kitsch killer
                                • Sep 2006
                                • 37852

                                #30
                                A rebuttal of sorts.

                                http://leanluxe.com/critical-take/ar...ry-streetwear/

                                Arun Gupta’s Grailed is democratizing luxury streetwear. Still, is this actually a good thing?



                                M. PAUL MUNFORD / OCT 27, 2016, 3:00 PM



                                In a recent report for Complex, writer Skylar Bergl (formerly of Complex’s jocular and now-defunct streetwear title, Four Pins) profiled the rapid progress of high-end streetwear resale marketplace, Grailed. Since its quiet debut in December 2013, which saw no flashy rollout, no bullhorn announcement, no heavy press push — just a simple, useful service for the ‘hashtag menswear’ set — the venture has amassed an active user base of 200,000 who post over 70,000 listings each month. From the very start, founder Arun Gupta has listened intently to Grailed’s avid audience, taking feedback from Reddit, email, menswear forums, and wherever else he can find it. Along the way, he’s implemented smart, measured adjustments throughout.

                                In truth, we are much less focused on the content of what Grailed is selling, than we are on the company’s impact on the broader resale market, and how its mission encapsulates modern luxury standards more generally. Streetwear sits outside the periphery of Lean Luxe’s focus, but we think Grailed deserves recognition and a closer look. We’ve jotted down some observations on the company, and in light of a recent complaint about the merits of Grailed’s mission, we address whether or not commodifying high-priced streetwear is a good thing for the market. Out take is below. But first — what have we noticed about Grailed as an operation?

                                A strong team of enthusiasts.


                                The Grailed team knows its market well because they are its market. Indeed, Mr. Gupta has pulled talent directly from Grailed’s target audience. Names like Lawrence Schlossman, for instance, formerly Four Pins’ editor-in-chief, and Nico Lazaro, formerly employed at menswear darling, Ovadia & Sons, are just two examples of the twenty-something menswear veterans who pull the strings behind the curtain. So far, Grailed’s success has been tied to accommodating the desires of its core audience: easy access to menswear “grails” or prized gear, solving the trust issues that plague selling these items on eBay, and making it convenient for casual sellers to sell an item or two and get it sold quickly. The following quote explains the eBay trust issue well.

                                “I can’t do eBay,” says Jacob Keller, manager of Portland menswear boutique Machus, who’s also worked with Nike and Jordan Brand. “There’s too much clutter and I don’t trust people there. You can stumble across eBay, but people are on Grailed because they know what it is. It’s close-knit—I’ve bought from people multiple times and they’ve bought from me multiple times.”

                                Understanding the importance of the consumer.

                                What Grailed demonstrates superbly is a keen understanding of today’s new marketplace standard: the primacy of the consumer. In fact, as Mr. Gupta explained, its very existence is predicated on this premise. He “built Grailed after realizing there was no used clothing service that catered specifically to men,” writes Complex’s Mr. Bergl. Here’s Mr. Gupta’s explanation: “I spent so much time on StyleForum, SuperFuture, and StyleZeitgeist trying to come up on good deals, but I had no money and no job. When you can cop a $240 sweater for $40, that’s an amazing thing. So clearly, the deals are great. But you feel like a rookie and outsider. . . . There’s a large barrier to entry that makes it difficult.” The result is a site that strips luxury streetwear (and access to it) of any artificial barriers or pretense.

                                So is democratizing high streetwear a good thing?

                                Not all menswear insiders are infatuated with what Grailed is doing. At StyleZeitgeist, writer and Lean Luxe subscriber Eugene Rabkin wagged a finger at Grailed for its commodified treatment of high-end, avant-garde men’s clothing. “Grailed,” he wrote, “turns all fashion into mere commodity. . . . [It] devalues [fashion] by turning itself into a supermarket.” He added: “Fashion does not simply sell garments but also intrinsic attributes that make them desirable enough to demand a high price tag,” and he lamented the fact that a cherished parka “that should be in a collection of any museum whose fashion curator is worth his chops” sat unsold with a price of $171.

                                He detests the practice of “lowballing” on the site too, a practice he believes Grailed has helped to perpetuate across the broader industry overall. He argued that the site is overstuffed, packed, and teeming with naive, trend-chasing members “who by and large neither have the means to buy designer clothes, nor the knowledge to truly appreciate them.”

                                While it is understandable that Mr. Rabkin might feel this way, his reasoning is flawed for a number of reasons. First, if price alone is a central differentiator for a luxury business, that’s a poor strategy. Second, lowering prices and democratizing access to luxury products is a defining feature of today’s modern luxury marketplace (see: Warby Parker, Everlane, etc.). Within the last decade consumers have grown to expect this, and it’s central to a consumer-centric economy. Third, as Everlane has famously shown, many of these prices are artificially high, featuring unnecessary markups. Buying these items used at a fraction of their retail price means that shoppers don’t have to foot the bill for the heavy marketing and branding overheads. It’s simply an economic correction.

                                Mr. Rabkin also cites the credentialization process of men’s fashion forums, Styleforum, Superfuture, and StyleZeitgeist in his argument against Grailed. Each forum enforces a rigorous, time-based set of requirements before users were allowed to buy or sell items there. StyleZeitgeist, for example, requires “members to have [a] one hundred post minimum before they are allowed to buy and sell in the classifieds,” Mr. Rabkin explained. This is to ensure that only enthusiasts have the right to participate. New arrivers or casual fans are not welcome.

                                Mr. Rabkin’s wish is to preserve the insular nature of this area of fashion. His impression is that only the true “enthusiasts” should be allowed to make these transactions. As a result, lowballing from “amateurs” would cease, these coveted used items would sell at higher prices, and most importantly, they would only land in the hands of those who truly deserved them. These “holy grails,” in other words, would no longer be subjected to the horror and indignity of open market economics.

                                But avant-garde menswear is no longer an insider’s game, a fact that Mr. Rabkin clearly bemoans. Its appeal has reached a growing population of fans, and is becoming more mainstream. The ascension of Grailed and the growing amount of activity within it only helps to confirm this.

                                Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                                StyleZeitgeist Magazine

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