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  • sbw4224
    Senior Member
    • Sep 2006
    • 571

    Careers in Fashion



    As a senior in college, I'm faced with the task of trying to decide
    where I want to head in life in terms of a career, or at least a first
    job out of college. I started college with aspirations to go to
    law school and work in politics, so I majored in political science and
    minored in geography and economics. My major and minors haven't
    changed, but my idea of post-college work has, and it changed in a sort
    of simple epiphany. I studied in London last and took a trip to
    Vienna by myself. While I was in Vienna I visited a shop called
    Park. I talked with the shop girl for a while, and after a bit,
    she asked me if I was in the industry, or if I went to fashion
    school. I said I didn't, but I should have. In her broken
    English she replied, "Well, why don't you just do it." A simple
    statement, but it rang very true.





    So,
    as my final year comes around, like I said, I'm faced with some choices
    that I have to make. Do I enjoy fashion enough to want to attempt
    to get into the business of it? (I love the design aspect as
    well, but my degree does limit me in some regards.) Or, should I
    get a job where I can make enough money to buy the items I like...





    I've
    thought about it for a while, and I've realized its not just the
    aquisition of a new item that I've been searching for, but I truly do
    enjoy fashion that I wouldn't even wear. Lately I've even been
    trying to learn more about the women's side of fashion. I think
    my interest is far past just enjoying to shop. My actual plans are to
    open a shop around the area where I live and see where it goes from
    there. I have a very good friend who is also interested and
    somewhat in the same position as I am, and right now, it seems like a
    very good idea. Of course, the area I do live in is either
    moderately conservative or wears the latest 7 Diamonds shirt or Diesel
    tee, so I wouldn't be able to sell everything I wanted to stock
    (providing I could theoretically stock any label I wanted to), but I
    feel like there is a market for certain labels here (Connecticut).






    I know most of you have probably thought of career options, but I'd
    like to hear your stories. Why haven't you, or why have you
    pursued a career involving fashion. If you haven't, what do you
    do instead to stay involved? I think djrajio is a good example
    of someone who has a career completely opposite fashion, but in his
    spare time is involved in the industry.





    I ask
    this here rather than another message board because I feel that people
    on this board invest a lot of their time and money into fashion-related
    things, and would respond with more mature and insightful thoughts than
    other places.





    I apologize if this is in the wrong thread. Feel free to move it if necessary.

  • Faust
    kitsch killer
    • Sep 2006
    • 37852

    #2
    Re: Careers in Fashion



    I think we can leave the thread here. Well, the question is tough, as any question about a career choice. I am in the same boat. I have been asked a gazillion times whether I work in the industry, and some people have been shocked to learn that I did not. However, good taste is certainly not an indication of a successful career in fashion. Fashion industry comes with a lot of baggabe, and I am not sure I am prepared to deal with it. A lot of it, like anywhere, is about who you know, not what you know. A lot of it is dealing with queens, gossip, and politics.



    You could avoid a lot of that by being your own boss, of course. But, opening a boutique is a very high risk operation. I've read somewhere that it's actually one of the toughest businesses to get a loan for because of large failure % (just look at all the closed stores in Soho, and not exactly small ones). I would think that the best place to start is actually to go work for a store to get insight into the operational side of things. You will have to do a lot of research on the demographic and buying habbits of people who live in your area. There is definitely a HUGE amount of disposable income in CT, given the rise of the hedge funds and financial industry in general. The question is, where does that money go? Do you think you have enough pull to change people's buying preferences? You might end up selling Diesel forever, and it actually might turn you off from fashion. So, there are a lot of questions to ask. I would certainly start with research. Is there a niche population that you could cater to? How will you differentiate your store? I look at success of store's like Atelier, and it seems so obvious now. There was a definite niche in NYC menswear market that they filled. They are the only store in NYC who carries Poell, an ample stock of CDiem, and until recently were the only decent stock of Ann Dem and Raf. But, they failed with womenswear. Be prepared to experiment, and to experiment you will have to be prepared to take a financial loss for at least the first couple of seasons. I thought about opening a boutique in NYC, but it's prohibitively expensive.



    I don't think your degree matters much, as long as you have one. These days proving that you are an intelligent person with an analytical mind and quick learning ability matters more than having a certain degree. My BBA is in finance, and I got into a Master's literature program. I went in with the idea of going into academia, but now I am considering fashion journalism. It seems like such a natural choice to me, just like it is starting to you, but there are a lot of questions. I think there is audience out there that is ready for an intelligent view on fashion.



    The things is, you never know. Julie Gilhart started out selling toasters at Nordstrom, and now she is a head womenswear buyer at Barneys. Cathy Horyn wrote about fashion for a paper in Detroit, and now she is probably the most venerable journalist and writes for NYTimes.



    I think having a career you like and devoting some of your time to fashion is a viable alternative. If you hate your job, that's another story. Anyway, I don't work in fashion, so my advice is marginal. It looks like we have several people here who work or have worked in fashion, maybe they can chime in.



    In any case, I wish you luck in whatever you undertake! My wife also has an undergrad in poli.sci. and just finished law school. She runs a research program now at another law school, and she loves it.

    Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

    StyleZeitgeist Magazine

    Comment

    • sbw4224
      Senior Member
      • Sep 2006
      • 571

      #3
      Re: Careers in Fashion



      Faust, while this might seem trivial to you, your blog turned me
      onto a lot of things that I didn't know before. I definitely
      think you should pursue fashion journalism.





      You
      bring up a lot of good points about opening a boutique, all of which
      I've heavily considered. It IS a huge risk, but growing up in CT
      and working part-time at the main place in the state for "trendy"
      merchandise such as Diesel, I think I have noticed a niche market that
      does exist. I also think there are people in the area who just
      need to be exposed to the right things. However, it's a really
      hard decision. Do I attempt to pioneer labels into CT that are
      "safer" but yet still forward and new to the area, or do I attempt to
      hit an area where a market already exists (NYC, or possible
      Providence). They're definitely huge risk factors and big business
      decisions that my friend and I need to make, but I feel like we're
      young and have a level head about reality. We might fail, but for
      now it's really the risk I'd like to take, especially while I'm young.



      I still love politics. If all else fails, I do have a reasonable degree to fall back onto.



      I'm definitely interested in other people's stories on this board. I'm sure there are some interesting ones.

      Comment

      • Faust
        kitsch killer
        • Sep 2006
        • 37852

        #4
        Re: Careers in Fashion

        [quote user="sbw4224"]

        Faust, while this might seem trivial to you, your blog turned me
        onto a lot of things that I didn't know before. I definitely
        think you should pursue fashion journalism.



        [/quote]



        Thanks, it actually means a lot to me. I appreciate it. Good luck with your undertaking, and let us know if you go through with it.

        Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

        StyleZeitgeist Magazine

        Comment

        • casem
          Senior Member
          • Sep 2006
          • 2590

          #5
          Re: Careers in Fashion

          What school are you getting your Master's at Faust? Or did you already get it?

          I'm glad somebody brought this up because it also interests me. I don't really want to do fashion for a career, but working in fashion while I get my Master's would be the ideal "pay the bills" type job. I'll be at NYU getting my Master's in Music Composition in January and I'll need something to get by on while I'm waiting for "stardom" haha. My only problem is I have no "real work" experience because I have always gotten by on teaching music lessons and gigs (and parents) so I wonder if it would be difficult to get hired, even for a sales position at a decent store. I was thinking of trying Barney's Co-Op because I hear they hire lots of young people. Any other ideas of what I should try? Will my bachelors in music help since it's a creative degree?

          Also somewhat related, it would be my dream to write the music for a fashion show(s). The music to so many shows is so bad (stereotypical campy techno is no longer so modern sounding!) so I really think I could do a service to the fashion world. Anyone have ideas on how to get into this? I was thinking of approaching students at Parson's and offering to do music for their student shows, with the hope I might get heard by the right people or the student might go on to do great things and remember me. I also thought about including a fashion element in my recitals, I love combining artforms and fashion and music are two of my favorites. Any other way to get a designer's attention? Or do they just approach you if your famous (or indie in the case of Hedi Slimane, who could really use some help, the string trio in his F/W show was awful)? Any leads or ideas about this would be greatly appreciated.
          music

          Comment

          • Faust
            kitsch killer
            • Sep 2006
            • 37852

            #6
            Re: Careers in Fashion

            [quote user="casem83"]What school are you getting your Master's at Faust? Or did you already get it?

            I'm glad somebody brought this up because it also interests me. I don't really want to do fashion for a career, but working in fashion while I get my Master's would be the ideal "pay the bills" type job. I'll be at NYU getting my Master's in Music Composition in January and I'll need something to get by on while I'm waiting for "stardom" haha. My only problem is I have no "real work" experience because I have always gotten by on teaching music lessons and gigs (and parents) so I wonder if it would be difficult to get hired, even for a sales position at a decent store. I was thinking of trying Barney's Co-Op because I hear they hire lots of young people. Any other ideas of what I should try? Will my bachelors in music help since it's a creative degree?

            Also somewhat related, it would be my dream to write the music for a fashion show(s). The music to so many shows is so bad (stereotypical campy techno is no longer so modern sounding!) so I really think I could do a service to the fashion world. Anyone have ideas on how to get into this? I was thinking of approaching students at Parson's and offering to do music for their student shows, with the hope I might get heard by the right people or the student might go on to do great things and remember me. I also thought about including a fashion element in my recitals, I love combining artforms and fashion and music are two of my favorites. Any other way to get a designer's attention? Or do they just approach you if your famous (or indie in the case of Hedi Slimane, who could really use some help, the string trio in his F/W show was awful)? Any leads or ideas about this would be greatly appreciated.


            [/quote]



            I am at New School. I actually almost took a course at NYU this semester, but bailed at the last minute. I am not sure if you know, but under a consortium agreement you could take classes at Mannes, if you wanted to. Your NYU ID also should let you into a Parsons building, so if you want to make a flyer and stick it onto their bulletin board, it's one way to get the student's attention. I think your idea is great, and I sincerely hope that there are designers out there that, unlike Hedi, will want genuine, original music for their shows. As it is, most designers are dictated to by the musicians, and not vice versa. You could be onto something here, a real breakthrough.



            As far as getting a job at a store, it sometimes is very easy. The most direct way is to get a job at any retail store first, such as H&M (your creative major will certainly help), and then either meet someone at a party or just walk into a store with a wanted ad and hope that they like you. I know plenty of people who work at high end stores who worked at high street stores before. It's not rocket science. BTW, there will be a wonderful mens shop in Brooklyn (Boerum Hill) opening up next season (Ann Dem, Margiela, Rick Owens, etc.). I could put in a word for you (no promises of course), but it would help if you had some retail experience before it.

            Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

            StyleZeitgeist Magazine

            Comment

            • djrajio
              Senior Member
              • Sep 2006
              • 143

              #7
              Re: Careers in Fashion

              Thanks for the plug. What I'm however doing isn't entirely glamorous though. I design and provide consulting for a design house that designs jeans for mid-tier consumers and they are very similar to true religion. The brand is sold is very mass-market department stores like 109. I'm doing it to understand the business aspects of fashion; supply chain management, business cycles, investory allocation, basically the nuts and bolts that really drive fashion here in Japan. It might not as glamorus or interesting as the brands that are discussed here but the reality is the majority of the labels discussed are barely if not at all profitable and the fickleness of the business pressures many avant-garde labels to go under in a few years time. My advice: Come to Asia. With the growing purchasing power of the Chinese/Indian economies and the surrounding countries, these economies will be the new drivers of fashion in the next decades and opportunities will certainly exist. For me, I think the business aspect is more interesting and also has the longest longevity. Frankly, no matter what aspect of fashion you work under, money will invariably be a key driver. Understanding how that fits into the equation will be a huge asset to any company. Also an interesting note: The founder of Yoox was actually a Lehman Brothers analyst that used to cover fashion house companies in Italy, Milan, etc. He basically saw the opportunity to start a high end discount website after discussions with his clients complaining that they didnt have any distributors to get rid off slow selling items. Basically through his business contacts via investment banking, he was able to leverage the financing and relationships with fashion distributors easily for Yoox.

              Comment

              • Faust
                kitsch killer
                • Sep 2006
                • 37852

                #8
                Re: Careers in Fashion



                [quote user="djrajio"]Thanks for the plug. What I'm however doing isn't entirely glamorous though. I design and provide consulting for a design house that designs jeans for mid-tier consumers and they are very similar to true religion. The brand is sold is very mass-market department stores like 109. I'm doing it to understand the business aspects of fashion; supply chain management, business cycles, investory allocation, basically the nuts and bolts that really drive fashion here in Japan. It might not as glamorus or interesting as the brands that are discussed here but the reality is the majority of the labels discussed are barely if not at all profitable and the fickleness of the business pressures many avant-garde labels to go under in a few years time. My advice: Come to Asia. With the growing purchasing power of the Chinese/Indian economies and the surrounding countries, these economies will be the new drivers of fashion in the next decades and opportunities will certainly exist. For me, I think the business aspect is more interesting and also has the longest longevity. Frankly, no matter what aspect of fashion you work under, money will invariably be a key driver. Understanding how that fits into the equation will be a huge asset to any company. Also an interesting note: The founder of Yoox was actually a Lehman Brothers analyst that used to cover fashion house companies in Italy, Milan, etc. He basically saw the opportunity to start a high end discount website after discussions with his clients complaining that they didnt have any distributors to get rid off slow selling items. Basically through his business contacts via investment banking, he was able to leverage the financing and relationships with fashion distributors easily for Yoox.
                [/quote]



                Excellent advice. I completely concur on Asia, and it's a great piece of information on Yoox.

                Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                Comment

                • sbw4224
                  Senior Member
                  • Sep 2006
                  • 571

                  #9
                  Re: Careers in Fashion



                  I figure most things in the fashion industry are the exact opposite
                  of glam. Probably the same could be said of any industry. I do
                  like the business aspect as well, and frankly, it's probably the only
                  thing I could really contribute as I have no background in art or
                  design.



                  Very interesting facts about Yoox. I
                  always find that kind of information very useful in deciding on what I
                  want to pursue. For instance, Scoop NYC has a store in Greenwich,
                  CT. They had to stop selling men's because of how poorly it was
                  doing. I know that it's Scoop, but they're a fairly recognizable
                  name and also stock more mainstream high-end. I wonder if it is
                  because men in that area thought of it primarily as a women's store or
                  if men aren't willing to spend their money on high dollar items in the
                  area. It could also be that they it was just too close to NYC,
                  and men would rather just go 30 minutes more to NYC for the real thing.





                  Another fact about CT boutiques is the huge
                  gap between mens and women's sales figures in stores that stock clothes
                  for both sexes. The owners I have talked to claim 70%-80% of all
                  sales in womens, and the rest in mens. I wonder how this compares
                  to men and womens stores in NYC?



                  Maybe it's
                  just best to keep stores seperated by gender? The example that
                  comes to mind is Start in London. They have a mens and womens
                  store that both do quite well, but are across the street from one
                  another.

                  Comment

                  • djrajio
                    Senior Member
                    • Sep 2006
                    • 143

                    #10
                    Re: Careers in Fashion

                    I think the only cities where a men's limited boutique could do any meaningful business is NYC and Los Angeles in the US. Even at these locations, the competition is fierce, partly because you have longestablished boutiques with strong contacts/distributor relationships, i.e. Atelier in NY andFreg Segal in LA and higher-income bracket customers that can actually spend money ontheseprogressive labels.Other cities are just not quite there in terms of men's desire to explore and buy more progressive fashion. A lot of it also has to do with social perceptions of "frivolous" fashion, still connotative with the gay community and to many American men, as de-masucline. Coupled with the fact that much of men's fashion is dictated by entertainment industry, if Brad Pitt stylist doesn't endorse it, most American men won't be willing to embrace it. This is very similar to the rise in popularity of seven jeans/true religion jeans after Paris Hilton/Jennifer Aniston started wearing them. Also remember that for many labels, the majority of profit comes from hand bags and acessories. Most labels make 80-90% of there profit from these entry-items and its common knowledge that the first luxury item a consumer purchases is an accessory. Accessories are a life blood for women's fashion; women have earrings, pendant, necklaces, bangles, bags, sunglasses, comestics, shoes, etc., all which can be branded and sold for high profit margins. Men's fashion lacks this distinct aspect and I suspect stores like Scoop make a large portion of their women's sales from this category. I'm curious why you are so intent on looking to start a physical store? For me personally, I think the internet/web-stores have the strongest presence right now basically because it removes the necessity to spend on rent/store space and puts the store in direct contact with the right customers that have the money and desire to buy more progressive labels.

                    Comment

                    • sbw4224
                      Senior Member
                      • Sep 2006
                      • 571

                      #11
                      Re: Careers in Fashion



                      There are few reason's why I'm leaning more towards a physical store.



                      1. A lot of heavy competition online as opposed to little competition in New England.



                      2. I don't think I would be able to stock the labels I wanted to if I just started from an online store.



                      3. I like the interaction with customers in a physical store scenario.





                      However,
                      online stores do provide some benefits. Like you said, they can reach
                      customers all over the country. Providing excellent customer
                      service, especially leniency with returns because of sizing issues is
                      key.



                      My friend and I who are going to do this
                      eventually have thought about online webstores. I just think it
                      would be difficult to compete with yoox, aloharag, and luisaviaroma and
                      the other numerous smaller websites. If I could differentiate our
                      product well I would definitely consider it. In the end, we both
                      just want a successful business.

                      Comment

                      • djrajio
                        Senior Member
                        • Sep 2006
                        • 143

                        #12
                        Re: Careers in Fashion



                        The reason I suggest an online venture is because without any retail experience nor finance credit, it will be very difficult to receive fundingandestablish contracts with labels/distributors. By starting an online venture, theinitial fixed costs are small (probably 10-20 dollars a month) assuming you competant in developing the page yourself. You may not be able to obtain the ideal labels you want initially, but if you build a steady reputation, more labels will be forthcoming. Or focus on up and coming labels and establish a following on your own. Then, later, if you are successful, branch out into a physical space. Just my 2 cents.

                        Comment

                        • Faust
                          kitsch killer
                          • Sep 2006
                          • 37852

                          #13
                          Re: Careers in Fashion



                          Online presence was smack on top of my list when I considered opening a boutique, but it was going to be coupled with a B&M store. SB, I have to disagree with you on the online presence of high-end retailers. I've been on the forums for a long time, and people constantly rotate between a handful of stores like LVR, Brown, Eluxury, NAP, and AlohaRag. There really isn't much high end shopping you can do online. For example, can one name a single outlet that sells Cloak online? Maybe there is one, but I've never seen it mentioned. And does it ship worldwide? When I sold a ton of Cloak last year on Ebay, one third of my customers were from Sweden. Online commerce opens up a world of customers who have money but no product to spend on. Phone orders do not provide the same level of shopping expereince as the Net does. So, yes, if you are planning on opening something other than a cookie-cutter store, Internet will be your lifeline. Moreover, that it costs next to nothing to create an online store these days.



                          DjRajio is giving great advice here. I would definitely seek up and coming labels. Look at Opening Ceremony who were quick to discern Cloak. They developed a relationship with Alex, and now run his flagship store. Also, look at niche markets, always. Part of the reason Atelier can charge such high prices is their niche product mix - noone carries some labels that they do. Their clients include Jude Law, Bruce Springsteen, and Billy Corrigan. Why? Because they want a unique, rock-n-roll looking product without caring for the price. And I cannot say that Atelier had big connections before starting the store. They are not even from New York, as a matter of fact. Of course being in NYC helps. But maybe being in CT is not really a big drawback (after all Aloha Rag is in Hawaii).

                          Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                          StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                          Comment

                          • sbw4224
                            Senior Member
                            • Sep 2006
                            • 571

                            #14
                            Re: Careers in Fashion

                            You guys are giving great advice, and I just want to say I appreciate
                            the comments. I had nearly written off opening an online
                            boutique. I think studying the flaws of the previously mentioned
                            websites plus offering labels online that are not available yet over
                            the internet is something that can equal success. On top of that,
                            a physical store could always come later if the website is a
                            success. I definitely have a lot of research and work to
                            do. I'll keep you guys posted, if you are interested.

                            Comment

                            • Faust
                              kitsch killer
                              • Sep 2006
                              • 37852

                              #15
                              Re: Careers in Fashion



                              [quote user="sbw4224"]You guys are giving great advice, and I just want to say I appreciate
                              the comments. I had nearly written off opening an online
                              boutique. I think studying the flaws of the previously mentioned
                              websites plus offering labels online that are not available yet over
                              the internet is something that can equal success. On top of that,
                              a physical store could always come later if the website is a
                              success. I definitely have a lot of research and work to
                              do. I'll keep you guys posted, if you are interested.
                              [/quote]



                              You bet! It's a dream that never came true for me.

                              Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                              StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                              Comment

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