Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

responsibility

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Faust
    replied
    Bump for members new and old

    Leave a comment:


  • agentred
    replied
    Responsibility? What's that?

    Leave a comment:


  • zamb
    replied
    Originally posted by DamageX View Post
    That was a very informative article, thanks for sharing this.

    Unfortunately, there will always be greedy businesses supported by willfully uninformed consumers...

    As James Kunstler said, "Consumers do not have obligations, responsibilities and duties to their fellow human beings."
    Fixed.......

    Leave a comment:


  • DamageX
    replied
    That was a very informative article, thanks for sharing this.

    Unfortunately, there will always be greedy businesses supported by uninformed consumers...

    As James Kunstler said, "Consumers do not have obligations, responsibilities and duties to their fellow human beings."

    Leave a comment:


  • Faust
    replied
    Li & Fung Profile - read what we contribute to when we buy cheap shit

    Leave a comment:


  • Faust
    replied
    Mmm, the kids who go to college now!

    The education system is not as bad as you say. Good ideas germinate there.

    And, there are all kinds of kids who go to design schools (yes, some of those you mention, too).

    Leave a comment:


  • 525252
    replied
    Having written the first post in this thread almost two years ago, I've found that my concerns have changed somewhat but the issue itself has changed none.
    In regards to education, I've learnt that universities won't hesitate to cut staff, funding, resources etc. etc. to make money. Also that any kind of useful education depends heavily on circumstantial chance encounters with individual educators within these institutions who have compatible agendas.
    My personal experience/observations are that universities, at least in the case of art and design schools, are childcare centres for overgrown adult-babies and lost high school graduates who have all come to the realisation that consumerism and office jobs suck. They're inflated institutions stuffed with half-way creatives who can afford to waste whatever amount of time and money until reality hits.
    To say even for argument's sake whether the ignorant middle class would change their lives after being handed some valuable knowledge is irrelevant. Given how shit education systems are, its pretty rubbish to speculate them being capable of achieving such a thing. I'm thinking realistic change isn't produced through rhetoric, but through a kind of rhizomatic influence that can't be controlled centrally. Whether that happens in or out of educational pretence is coincidence.
    but Faust, who do you mean by the new generation?

    Leave a comment:


  • Faust
    replied
    Originally posted by Fenix View Post
    This has always been the answer? I agree somewhat. The question I was trying to pose is "are we too far gone"? You say no but I'm not convinced.

    For arguments sake let's say we were able to educate every middle class American down. What percentage of those people are really going to make a life change? Not only do they have to sacrifice and spend the money on the quality ingredients, thus taking $'s from another pool in their budget. They also must invest the time into preparing a solid meal. Sacrifice and no convenience? This is a true revolution!

    E, don't get me wrong I'm with you but educating is only the tip of the iceberg.
    I think it could happen. That's how ideas that change society germinate. It would have to be with the new generation though.

    Several_girls, understood. BTW, I wasn't addressing you with the self-flagellation comment. I am all for self criticism, but I am also against romanticizing the proles.

    Leave a comment:


  • several_girls
    replied
    Originally posted by Faust View Post
    But plenty of poor Americans are also stupid and irresponsible in their spending and living habits.
    ...
    It's time the moral self-flagellation of privileged liberals has stopped and the real work - educating the poor - resumed.
    For the record, I am in agreement with you about education. I think so much would change if people knew the conditions of production.

    Secondly, your point is one about agency, mine was more of a description of social structure. We are approaching the question from two different assumptions; yours attributes a high amount of responsibility and expectation of all people, mine is that people do not have so much control over their decisions--for any number of reasons (imperfect information, resources, etc).

    I am not saying how things should be, or that they are bad or good, but simply "this is how it is right now." It's not that there are the rich who eat organic and the poor who don't, and one is more reprehensible than the other, I am saying that awareness of ethical consumption is contingent on the existence of this wealthier class who can afford to do so. And now we want for the poor to eat organic or grow gardens?

    There is no solution, because poor people are poor and cannot afford the investment of time, money or personal energy, unless someone provisions it for them. This is what Althusser called "the last instance." People will always seek the cheapest goods. Until it is profitable to produce things with fair labor standards and so on, the market will always select for exploitation. It's like water seeking it's own level.

    Finally, I disagree with you about moral self-flagellation. No matter which philosophical position I take or social station I occupy, I cannot help but self-criticize. There is a reason for the association between anxiety and intelligence, no? Especially in ethics, this is about considering the best course of action. Whether I am thinking about my choices deontically or consequentially, it takes time to figure out.

    Originally posted by Fenix View Post
    For arguments sake let's say we were able to educate every middle class American down. What percentage of those people are really going to make a life change? Not only do they have to sacrifice and spend the money on the quality ingredients, thus taking $'s from another pool in their budget. They also must invest the time into preparing a solid meal. Sacrifice and no convenience? This is a true revolution!

    E, don't get me wrong I'm with you but educating is only the tip of the iceberg.
    I agree, however attractive this looks implementing some system of education seems problematic. We are going to tell the poor and middle class how to spend their money? Isn't this the "civilizing mission" all over again?

    How like Native Americans were brought into boarding schools, taught proper English language, social manners, dress, religion; meanwhile their parents were coaxed by the BIA into trying sustenance agriculture in the least arable lands they were left with. This is an extreme case, but you see what I am getting at. The generalization is that wealthy are imposing their values onto the poor, and it will be entirely for the humanitarian benefit to the poor! I've heard this story before.

    I suppose another "solution" would be to try and unionize labor in agriculture and production in Honduras, Vietnam, Thailand and wherever else clothes are being made and fruit is being picked. Then they could bargain for fair working conditions. Unfortunately, unions in these countries are violently suppressed.

    Leave a comment:


  • wurm
    replied
    Originally posted by Fenix View Post
    This has always been the answer? I agree somewhat. The question I was trying to pose is "are we too far gone"? You say no but I'm not convinced.

    For arguments sake let's say we were able to educate every middle class American down. What percentage of those people are really going to make a life change? Not only do they have to sacrifice and spend the money on the quality ingredients, thus taking $'s from another pool in their budget. They also must invest the time into preparing a solid meal. Sacrifice and no convenience? This is a true revolution!

    E, don't get me wrong I'm with you but educating is only the tip of the iceberg.
    If we educate, people will better know how to a lot their money. You can spend a hell of a lot less making your own healthy sandwich than you would at McDonald's. Also, quality food doesn't have to take a ton of time. There are simple recipes that taste good and are nutritious too .

    Leave a comment:


  • Fenix
    replied
    Originally posted by Faust View Post
    It's time the moral self-flagellation of privileged liberals has stopped and the real work - educating the poor - resumed. I think that's your answer, Fenix*.
    This has always been the answer? I agree somewhat. The question I was trying to pose is "are we too far gone"? You say no but I'm not convinced.

    For arguments sake let's say we were able to educate every middle class American down. What percentage of those people are really going to make a life change? Not only do they have to sacrifice and spend the money on the quality ingredients, thus taking $'s from another pool in their budget. They also must invest the time into preparing a solid meal. Sacrifice and no convenience? This is a true revolution!

    E, don't get me wrong I'm with you but educating is only the tip of the iceberg.

    Leave a comment:


  • Patroklus
    replied
    Education is bad for capitalism?

    Leave a comment:


  • Faust
    replied
    To be sure, several_girls, there are plenty of people like you describe. But plenty of poor Americans are also stupid and irresponsible in their spending and living habits. To wit, McDonald's has no fucking business accepting food stamps. But they do. Who goes there? Not the rich. And I don't buy the argument that junk food is cheaper than vegetables. You don't have to go to Whole Foods. I live in an immigrant neighborhood in Brooklyn where I've lived for 20 years. I just passed by a vegetable store that sells avocados for 50 cents. They are $2.25 a piece at Whole Foods (non-organic).

    It's time the moral self-flagellation of privileged liberals has stopped and the real work - educating the poor - resumed. I think that's your answer, Fenix*. That's been the answer for centuries. Provided you are not some vicious redneck, we all want our children to have better lives than we do. That entails education. And the educational institutions are where good ideas not only get born, but get crystallized and spread through society. It will take time, but I think it will happen. I know it's bad for capitalism, but capitalism can be beaten at their own game - witness the scrambling of big food companies to jump on the organic game. Sure, we can say it's not pure, and it isn't. But, hey, if these motherfuckers can deliver organic milk to Walmart, I will take it over no organic milk. So, our hope is for next generation.

    My child is an American child. She does not know what the inside of a McDonald's look like and she has zero interest in going there and poisoning herself. Now, that's a small revolution.

    *You are lucky you live in a civilized country. Our education system is so thoroughly fucked, I wouldn't even know where to begin...

    Leave a comment:


  • several_girls
    replied
    Originally posted by syed View Post
    Most people are not even aware that there is a problem or issue that needs tackling, so until there is more attention paid to the issue, it remains a fringe concern, which is more than unfortunate.
    Originally posted by Fenix View Post
    The real question becomes how can we change this mentality or even better, at this point, can it be changed? I'm not so sure and I'll give you an example as to why.

    So, I am a huge foodie, big into farm to plate, etc. I'm in a local store yesterday cause the family wanted chicken wings. Get to the cash and it's $36 for approximately 3 kilos of chicken wings. My instantaneous reaction is "wtf, why am I paying this much for wings".
    I'm in agreement as far as considering the "true cost" of cheap food/goods, but to import a point I made in another thread: I think the whole organic/slow food phenomenon, as well as artisan clothes/furniture/housing, can be understood as an expression of income inequality as much as it might be a grass-roots, ethical consumer movement.

    Consider, for example, the clientele that prop up shops like Atelier. I've read a few of the stories posted here of celebrity customers that walk from their private appointment with armloads of CCP. Those of us buying stuff on discount might actually constitute a less vital part of annual sales than we imagine. I'm not a store owner or manager though, I could be wrong. Similarly, who can afford to shop at Whole Foods? The quickly vanishing middle class find it burdensome, and certainly not the swelling ranks of poor.

    Take as another example, I've recently heard the terms "developing nations" and "1st world countries" inverted: the US and western EU should be considered "overdeveloped" countries. So take this thinking and bring it to bear upon a concept like food deserts. We're not really seeing food deserts, this is actually just way that most people live and only wealthy people who can afford to have discussions or read journalism about food deserts perceive them as such. The wealthy think that their living standard is the norm, and when parts of cities in the US or EU look like third world countries, they are surprised to find not everyone lives the way they do.

    And growing income inequality dovetails neatly with the growth of concern over things being handmade, grown or traded fairly, etc., no? I'm aware that concern has always been out there, but you must agree that's it gotten much more popular in the last 10-15 years.

    Leave a comment:


  • Fenix
    replied
    Originally posted by syed View Post
    Most people are not even aware that there is a problem or issue that needs tackling, so until there is more attention paid to the issue, it remains a fringe concern, which is more than unfortunate.
    The real question becomes how can we change this mentality or even better, at this point, can it be changed? I'm not so sure and I'll give you an example as to why.

    So, I am a huge foodie, big into farm to plate, etc. I'm in a local store yesterday cause the family wanted chicken wings. Get to the cash and it's $36 for approximately 3 kilos of chicken wings. My instantaneous reaction is "wtf, why am I paying this much for wings".

    Point is, it is engrained into our mind, at least in North America, that food/clothes and certain things should be cheap. Even to the point that, myself who consciously attempts to make the right choices when it comes to products has the above reaction.

    If even I have these moments, how can we expect people in a lower income bracket who have built their quality of life around having access to cheap food and clothes to make the change? No matter how much anyone preaches to them, something dramatic will need to happen to influence the masses at this point.

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X
😀
🥰
🤢
😎
😡
👍
👎