Basis for Pattern Cutting Theory

[Stamper]

First, it seems the standard to offer the disclaimer that us new people are, well, new. I've lurked the forums for quite some time, even began the process to sign up, but only today decided that it's time to enter the ring. I have combed through the threads for a while looking for an answer to my question, but have decided I may as well ask then hope either an answer is offered or I am pointed in the correct direction.

Now to the backstory part. I spent this last school year in fashion school and have decided to take an undisclosed period of time off. Myriad reasons contributed to this decision, but don't relate to the important bit of the question. During my time there, it was the usual foundation level stuff, so, unfortunately, no work with pattern making.

Having returned to my home town, I have decided to independently, at least for the immediate future, learn how to cut garments. I have purchased a book offline to begin the learning experience, and have had reasonable success as I work through it. As I got along, I do see relations between certain numbers and what results, but overall, I have yet to find a correlation between why "X" becomes "Y" and then results in "Z" when creating a garment.

My question is what measurements, or special, magical set of theorems, are used to result in garments (or their blocks and patterns, specifically) being made?

I do have a notion this is much like asking "what is architecture?" or "what constitutes good art?" in that there are many different schools of thought, so the answer could possibly differ from one person to the next. Since it's something with a tangible result, there is a starting point for putting numbers in to get garments out; it's construction on a small scale. I think it's one thing to know the way to make a block for different garments (and being able to manipulate them), but another to also understand why you are using the numbers you are to form said block.

Also, a note: I read the article on the SZ Magazine on Koeun Park and how she is trained in pattern cutting methodologies from Italy, Germany and England. Found this immensely interesting, and was perhaps a start to running down this rabbit hole so many months ago.

[ProfMonnitoff]

I'm still learning this stuff myself, but here's what's worked for me so far.

I would advise you to stay away from numbers are much as possible in early patternmaking. Of course if you want to make a collar you have to know the neckline measurement etc, but I mean in terms of the silhouette.

Most patternmaking books (especially the Aldrich one, but also the Kershaw book which is its modern equivalent) are mostly just painting by numbers. They say make this line x cm, the next line is y cm at z angle, etc. While you'll end up with some solid patterns, I don't find that a very useful way to learn as there's no understanding of why doing these things has the result it does. Of course these books aren't bad for creating blocks that you then modify on your own (though a lot of the Aldrich patterns look very dated as they haven't been modified since the 1st edition of the book came out), but be careful... there's a reason why so much menswear looks the same now, everyone is using the same patterns that they got from the same places, either as a block from their fashion school patternmaking teacher or from the Kershaw book. It's a bit depressing to see every London young designer/streetwear label show the exact same coat silhouette because they just can't be bothered coming up with their own.

I would recommend two books:
1. How Patterns Work by Assembil - this is a very new book that has no numbers in it whatsoever, it's purely abstract. But it has all the core techniques that are needed to create and adjust rtw patterns. I've found it very helpful. When I'm trying to figure something out it's nice to have a book that shows the general technique, rather than the technique applied to a garment that is different from the one I'm working on.
2. Classic Tailoring Techniques by Roberto Cabrera and Patricia Meyers - This is mainly a book on tailoring and construction, but it has an unbelievably valuable section on what to adjust when a garment doesn't fit right.

In terms of work process, here's what I've found to work well for me:
1. KNOW WHAT SHAPE/SILHOUETTE YOU WANT!!! Otherwise the rest of it is pointless. This seems obvious, but you'd be surprised.
2. Make a toile based on a pattern from a block or book or existing garment, that you think might be reasonably close to your desired outcome
3. Put it on a person (even better, more than one person), never on a mannequin. See what needs to be adjusted. Is there excess fabric in the seat of the trousers? Is it too narrow around the knee? Figure out everything that needs to change.
4. Adjust your pattern. Use cut/spread and pivoting to change the shapes.
5. Try this new shape on the same person, see if it's good now, if not make further adjustments, repeat this until you get it right.

Of course it helps to know that a typical outerwear sleeve is ~59-62cm and stuff like that, but it's much less important than looking at a toile and saying the sleeve needs to be 3cm shorter than it is right now, ie having a real understanding of what you need to add/subtract where to get the changes that you want.

One last thing, I'd advise you to stay away from J shape legs, spiral seams, all that stuff that some sz favourites do, until you have a good understanding of the basics. Those techniques are unfortunately often used by young designers to hide a lack of real knowledge.

[ProfMonnitoff]

As far as making your own blocks goes or understanding what goes into existing ones, you have to understand that blocks aren't some magical thing. They're just a pattern with all the details removed so it's easy to make a new garment with a similar shape.

The numbers come from the human body, usually a size 46/48 body. Non-oversized outerwear blocks tend to have fairly similar shoulder, chest, etc. measurements because there's only so much you can do with the human body.

Take the chest measurement of someone who is a typical size 48. Then compare it to 2x front chest + 2x back chest of a block. How do the numbers compare? Is the block 5cm bigger? 10cm? And how does a garment made from that block fit in the chest? If you take the time to look at these things, you will start to understand why the numbers are the way that they are.

Of course I haven't even talked about basic features like curved seams, darts, etc. but it's really the same. Look at existing garments/patterns, see how they fit on people, make conclusions from that. There aren't any shortcuts.

You also have to think about your fabric of course, for example I've seen rtw jackets from sz approved brands in heavy fabric where the undercollar was showing, presumably because they used the same pattern as they did for the lightweight fabric garment and forgot to think of issues like this.

What I've seen so far in the industry, people really just toile their best guess and then adjust and re-toile, re-adjust, etc. and of course you can do it faster and in fewer steps with more experience but it's still the same method mostly.

I'd be interested in hearing from someone with a lot more knowledge than myself such as zamb.

[Stamper]

I'd be interested in hearing from someone with a lot more knowledge than myself such as zamb

Secretly, I was hoping that maybe he would make an appearance here. So maybe if we say his name enough he'll eventually show up.

[Stamper]

I appreciate the advice, ProfMonnitoff! Especially the fact it's such a thorough answer.

I'll definitely have to try taking a block or pattern and then comparing it to a human body to look for correlations and patterns.

What you said about just straight cutting patterns then manipulating them outside of using a block makes a lot of sense to me. The only issue I have with this is not knowing the why about what is happening. I'm personally a big why guy. I also worry this method of cut, recut, repeat could be wasteful. Though I guess that is the price you have to pay until you've gained experience.

Also, with this method how does one add in ease? Or how do you go about drafting "off the cuff" (pun... intended?) in making such things as sleeves. I understand the shape and the concept of how it ends up, and even to a limited extend understand altering it, but without a block, is there really any way to make sure you're ending up with a true pattern without math?

I actually have that first book, but I'll be honest in that I put it down after about 25-45 pages. I was bored and unimpressed, but maybe I should give it another shot. I've seen either editions of Classic Tailoring Techniques as well and had the intention to pick it up one of the versions. It sounds like we're running in similar circles (or Amazon's analytics really works, bastards).

[NOHSAD]

I've been teaching myself Pattern making for a few months now (When i have time, and it's for personal knowledge; i'd like to have the skill set to make garments whenever i feel like it as well as turn a couple of ideas I've had in my head + paper for a while into reality). I agree with ProfMonnitoff as far as knowing (or at least have an idea) of what you want the shape/silhouette of your garment to be before you start drafting. "Winging it" or "adjust as you go along" works it you got the experience, but if you're new, you're just wasting time and materials.

I've stumbled across How Patterns Work book a few times on Amazon, never bother to click on it. After going through a few of the sample pages i'll give it a chance, it looks like it will be highly useful as a reference book and just a good book in general for beginners.

[NOHSAD]

I'd be interested in hearing from someone with a lot more knowledge than myself such as zamb.

Zamb and Small sharing their thoughts on this would be great!

[Stamper]

"Winging it" or "adjust as you go along" works it you got the experience, but if you're new, you're just wasting time and materials.

This is definitely my root worry. I'm one of those people, I don't want to create excess waste. Understandably, there's an intrinsic value to beautiful things, and sometimes those things create some waste, but unnecessary excess can't be justified.

Furthermore, I don't feel like it offers a concrete method to making clothes. While you may be left with understanding what the essence of making clothes is, I don't feel like you'll be left with having a grasp on the origin of the theories of pattern clothing.

Someone went "hey, if you do put together these measurements, you get this block, which leads to this certain pattern" and since then it's been accepted as the way to do things. I am looking for the motives behind this persons' thinking and methodology.

The Assembil book had enough in it for me not to sell it back to Amazon. Though it isn't the most advanced book, in my opinion, having something around that can possibly hold an answer is worthwhile.

[Stamper]

Zamb and Small sharing their thoughts on this would be great!

The plot thickens.

[Stamper]

I was hesitant to post again, but I felt this warrants it's own post.

I think that it's pointless to begin creating clothing without having a notion of what you're trying to say. Perhaps this could be akin to stream of conscious writing, but I doubt the two correlate so. Breathing life into these ideas in the least wasteful manner would be easiest with a knowledge on how to accurately manipulate patterns.

Say we want to get jeans to stack in the sz fashion, without prior knowledge that a spiral seam allows whatever geometry to happen to result in more fabric to stack, we could find ourselves either with awful fitting pants(?) or so much waste it's nearly not worth it. Perhaps that's a poor example, but hopefully it illustrates my point.

Perhaps it's a matter of needing to better understand geometry.

[NOHSAD]

I believe it's more of knowing what to measure and how to measure it so that it adds up the way you want it to. Geometry, it's present in pattern making, no arguing that. However, If we're talking about lets say a pattern for a t-shirt in the traditional crew neck style (with an elongated length for added "style") then i'd say you don't need to spend so much time on the geometry part (it would be more for shaping the pattern and maybe the hemline) as measurements is what you're going to aim for.

Now if you were going for something more complex in terms of shape like CDG's Spiral Duffle Coat or the recent CDG runway show for that matter, there's going to be a good amount of Geometry involved as well as measurements to ensure that the shapes and numbers all add up to one another. The more complex you want your piece to be, the more geometry/measurements will be involved.

(I'm still a newbie to Pattern making, these are my thoughts from what free time i have on learning and practicing myself so my response may not be the most ideal. I'm sure Prof, and anyone else more experience who decides to jump on this thread can can give you their thoughts)

[Stamper]

I'm not sure how sarcastic you intended the air quotes around style to be, but that got a laugh out of me. I totally agree with you, though.

I feel like a t-shirt isn't a marvel of cutting achievement, necessarily. The measurements are taken, but then, as I would hypothesize, all you're doing with them is making sure your seams line up inside the boundaries of a tube with a certain circumference/diameter in order for the resulting shape to end up correct. So for example, a t-shirt is a tube (I guess this is applicable to all clothing), semi closed at the top, with two smaller tubes sticking of the side. The tubes can have an infinite amount of seams on it anywhere as long as you have something that resembles a tube, or in the 2D a circle with the correct circumference.

When you move into designs that are lined, I feel like this application can be applied again, but with the inclusion of more tubes layered around each other. You can twist seams, add sections, and go on and on, resulting in the work of on the scale of CDG or anyone who is at the top of the game.

But again, I feel lost at, where is the tube circumference coming from and how can we make sure tubes connect properly?

Also, I thought about this when you mentioned CDG. I browse The Cutting Class, and I'm impressed by their analyses, on myriad different social platforms. They mentioned an alternative to flat pattern cutting and draping. Here it is, it's worth a look:

Introduction with link to Julian Roberts' site

The Cutting Class' reference images on Subtraction Cutting

[Stamper]

Tube Circumference as in an equation or the ideal way to measure for it? Connect properly, are you referring to it connecting as in the numbers add up or in the sense of it fits the garment properly (Measurement vs Sewing)?

To be honest, I originally didn't think of the ambiguity that's possible there. I see where it could be either.

1) Equation seems more fitting. (honestly, puns not intended)
2) I think that the garment isn't going to fit well without the numbers adding up.

The first question seems to be more of a "which comes first ... chicken ... egg?" situation. As Prof stated earlier, first you have to know desired silhouette. From there you can determine the general measurements for said silhouette, but without any way to assemble these measurements into a garment, you're lost. So though measurements are a preparation for equation, equation supersedes measurements.

Please, disagree here, though. I'm not sure if my logic is perfectly sound. They almost seem to be happening simultaneously in my head, which I know one has to occur first.


I guess we can liken it to math. We all know (36/4)+8=17. Now why is this 17? You're dividing 36 units into 4 groups then adding 8 units to the first equation-easy. The same roughly applies to the pattern making issue. We can follow the books or the instructions, but where is the understanding as to why we are using a quarter inch here or an eighth of a measurement there. We understand we need to have tubes that sit this way on the body, we can follow the instructions to measure and cut said tubes, but where is the basis for the mathematics?

Correct me if my postings should be filed away somewhere on the "wtf" thread.

Edit: I can't say I found your response to be thoughtless. I grappled with making sure I was sound in my logic here. Hopefully that illuminates things better.

[ProfMonnitoff]

You can't be too afraid of "wasting" material. Theory will only get you so far. The material is not wasted if you learn from it. Calico is like $2/meter, most garments use less than 1.5m if you're smart about cutting.

Regarding how to figure out an ease for example: look at the shoulder of a toile and decide it needs ease. Add maybe 1cm ease and try that out. Is that enough volume? Too little? Too much? With armholes it's s bit more complicated, but there are a number of different 'default' ways to make a sleeve head based on an armhole. Try one and see how it looks. Then think about what you would change. Sorry if I'm sounding like a broken record here.

How would you ever figure this out while working in 2D? This isn't a hard science, there aren't correct choices. The way you learn which numbers mean what is from experience.

[TriggerDiscipline]

this conversation is super weird, what do you mean where do the tubes connect?

when you draw a pattern theres a certain shape that is the shape of the bodice and this is determined by size, if you want to drop the shoulder on it then you add centimeters to it, if you want the shoulder lines to be more up then you remove centimeters inward (think a tanktop)

usually to make sleeves you measure the length of the armhole and there are techniques to make the arm curve the same length as the armhole, and then depending on your design (lets say for example something normal) the tallest part of the arm shoulder would be where you would mark it to attach to the shoulder seams and then when you cut the fabric you would put a notch there to signify that, thats the spot where this is. like if you get the B(C) W H you can make something if you have a like source pattern and you just change it to fit your drawing or w/e you have imagined.


theres shit that needs to be calculated but unless you provide a very specific example I can not explain it to you.

sorry I am not Zamb or Small.

also some stuff is just done by draping, theres no pattern its just slapping some fabric on a body that already has like 2cm all around for it to be not body tight. (think Rick Owens Lillies)

I do not really like talking about patternmaking and clothes making in general in english but I guess I should get used to it.

also ProfMonnitoff is super right and everything is just like draw a pattern initially then toile and like have all the of the seams extra big and then adjust if it doesnt fit and if it works then you keep going.

nowadays its all CAD too, but im sure people like PH just draw it with a ruler