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Thread: Cultural Figures You Are Expected to Like, but Don't

  1. #21

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    You're probably righ about Nabokov, I just don't like to be condescended to and his prose stinks of condescention for the reader. I'm not alone in this opinion, although admitedly there are not many of us. Maybe you have a higher tolerance for pompousness

    Erofeev is definitely better, I liked Москва-Петушки, but if he's high up at the top of your litterary pantheon I feel sorry for you

  2. #22
    kitsch killer Faust's Avatar
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    Terence Malick - I find most of his films cheesy or borderline so. Of course, the cinematography is stunning at times, especially those peerless late afternoon scenes.
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  3. #23

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    Quote Originally Posted by galia View Post
    You're probably righ about Nabokov, I just don't like to be condescended to and his prose stinks of condescention for the reader. I'm not alone in this opinion, although admitedly there are not many of us. Maybe you have a higher tolerance for pompousness
    there's this weird tension i have reading nabokov, where the stone-cold lapidary beauty of his style is constantly pulling against what you've just described. i do like him still, but with definite reservation—i just wish he'd had more of a sense of humour (that wasn't just a snigger at someone's expense).

    the only feller to die this year whose music i listen to with any frequency was tony conrad.
    ain't no beauty queens in this locality

  4. #24
    kitsch killer Faust's Avatar
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    Meh. I love Nabokov. His ridicule of the fatuous is delicious. Come live in America, Galia, and you'll understand him better.

    Everyone from the YBA. A bunch of posers and Warhol-wannabes. Well, I can go on about contemporary art for a long time...
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  5. #25

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    radiohead and nine inch nails two completely different bands sure both equally cringe-worthy

  6. #26
    kitsch killer Faust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by killah View Post
    radiohead and nine inch nails two completely different bands sure both equally cringe-worthy
    FUCK YOU
    Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

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  7. #27

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    Quote Originally Posted by Faust View Post
    FUCK YOU
    This took you 2 days? I was so waiting for it :)
    Ditto btw.
    Hi. I like your necklace. - It's actually a rape whistle, but the whistle part fell off.

  8. #28
    kitsch killer Faust's Avatar
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    Haha, I was working!
    Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

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  9. #29

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    I would never live in the USA, it seems like a nightmare of ignorance, self righteousness and processed food. Ugh

  10. #30

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    dying and coming back gives you considerable perspective

  11. #31
    kitsch killer Faust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by galia View Post
    I would never live in the USA, it seems like a nightmare of ignorance, self righteousness and processed food. Ugh
    Spoken like a typical Frenchie ;)
    Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

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  12. #32

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    Quote Originally Posted by galia View Post
    Xavier Dolan - admitedly have seen none of his films, so unfair and unfounded opinion, but everything I see about him and all the exerpts of his films I've seen have annoyed me way too much, I don't even want to give him a chance.
    That's an unfair treatment. He shows a very interesting progression and has an impressive body of work for his age. I feel like the medias love to portrait him as a generational/gay icon and that makes him an easy target to hate.

  13. #33

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    I do like how this thread turned into "shit I haven't bothered to have a look at."

  14. #34

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    Quote Originally Posted by Faust View Post

    Ai Wei Wei - artist. I never got the appeal of his art as art. I can process it as political gestures, but as art I find it pretty pedestrian.
    If you look at his works as conceptual, which one should in my opinion, it isn't so much about the the "object" which i think you mean by "art." Excuse my quotations, but I think it is important with an artist like Ai Wei Wei to look at his work as art without as much reference to the final art object itself, and avoid judging his practice from installations/sculpture etc.

  15. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shifts View Post
    Morrissey I simply can't connect. Maybe more about the voice and music than the person, but still.
    I have had a serious turn around on Morrissey - now I cannot get enough. He is bitchy, for sure, but his meanness is righteous, he's after this despicable world. I totally get it.

    Wolfgang Tillmans - so fucking banal. I don't get it at all.

    Juergen Teller - same. This kind of "I am too cool for school" attitude of snapshot photos was Ok for a couple of years, but it's ran its course a long time ago.

    I believe both are taking a piss, especially Teller.
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  16. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by matglenn View Post
    If you look at his works as conceptual, which one should in my opinion, it isn't so much about the the "object" which i think you mean by "art." Excuse my quotations, but I think it is important with an artist like Ai Wei Wei to look at his work as art without as much reference to the final art object itself, and avoid judging his practice from installations/sculpture etc.
    I get that part. The thing is I think that political art, art as gesture, gets few, if any, real results. So, yes, I still would like to advocate for art as artwork. Picasso's Guernica would be a good and obvious example, the haunting work of Otto Dix, Goya, of course, etc.
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  17. #37

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    Quote Originally Posted by Faust View Post
    The thing is I think that political art, art as gesture, gets few, if any, real results. So, yes, I still would like to advocate for art as artwork. Picasso's Guernica would be a good and obvious example, the haunting work of Otto Dix, Goya, of course, etc.
    Understandable. Although it's not really possible to measure the results of of political art, in a current contemporary context at least which I believe is the result of the horribly excessive nature of post-internet visual culture.

    I would argue for political art of the past wholeheartedly though, because it was actually intrinsically linked to social and political activism. For example If one thinks of second-wave feminism images of Martha Rosler, Kruger, Chicago etc would come to mind, and Adrian Piper using notions if intersectionality in performance moving into third-wave feminism. General Idea's IMAGEVIRUS campaign is essentially the visual manifestation of art activism following the Aids crisis.

    I suppose the idea of "art as artwork" is rather complicated too. I think that "art" (ideas of medium specificity [painting] in this context) in the traditional sense is important, but I do not know if it should necessarily be advocated. Although one should appreciate aesthetic qualities of art objects, It is also important to keep in mind that painting as a medium is conditioned by ideologies and its relationship to power. Picasso's Guernica, for example is incredibly charming to look at but are also a result of the colonial and racist nature of his process. So I guess I'd have to disagree with the importance of "art as artwork," i do not think that Clement Greenberg and Modernist ideologies were productive in art history, and it took until post-modernism for art history and institutional practices to begin to move into a more productive place. My apologies if unpacked the comment too much, I just have strong feelings about art history hah

  18. #38
    kitsch killer Faust's Avatar
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    No, I find your response refreshing. Maybe I've read too much Robert Hughes :-) I know I'm in the minority, but I agree with him on many things. I find the likes of Barbara Kruger and Jenny Holzer (sorry Helmut) to be lame - their artwork seems so facile. I do think that Greenberg had the right idea but did not know that he's leading a dead-end movement.
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  19. #39
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    Great thread, didnt see it before!

    Agree with what you guys said about Ai Wei Wei, The Beatles and Wes Anderson.

    As for writers, I would say:
    Jonathan Franzen - I always have a grat time with his novels, that's good when an author can pen from the eye of the hurricane (the hurricane being our times). But I don't see much substance in them and the essays are just overrated, not to say boring, with all this birdwatching references.

    David Foster Wallace and Thomas Pynchon - I put them together cause they are hell obsessive with their writings, but hell shallow when you read them. (Dunno if i made myself clear ???)

    Singers/bands:

    Bjork - cant get through her puerile voice with exotic English pronunciation. Add it to the noise (love "noise music" in general) and you have a seizure.

    Rolling Stones - just can't listen. But I see the importance for pop music.

    Actors:

    Jennifer Lawrence - she's Kristen Stewart with 2 milimeters more of facial muscles oscillation.

    Will Smith's son (forgot his name) - he's Kristen Stewart with 2 meters less of facial muscles oscillation.

    Fashion figures:

    Alexander Mcqueen: i see a lot of personality and some collections are stunning. But overall I just felt an attempt to epater le bourgeois.

    Hope there is not much hate in my text, cause there wasnt.
    “Given the choice between the experience of pain and nothing, I would choose pain." William Faulkner

  20. #40

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    Expected to like, but don't: Malcolm Gladwell. Guy's a good journalist and writer, but damn if he doesn't see the world in black and white, and he sure isn't afraid to sacrifice logic to make his point sound compelling.

    Expected not to like, but do: Michael Lewis. I thought Flash Boys (intentionally) demonized HFT and didn't paint a clear picture of the issue. But after reading The Undoing Project he's redeemed himself to me, it's a great book.

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