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Thread: Yohji Yamamoto Womenswear FW07 Paris

  1. #1

    Default Yohji Yamamoto Womenswear FW07 Paris



    Polka dots! But... monograms? My initial reaction is that they detract from the clothes as takes attention away from the subtleties of the shapes and folds of the clothing, which is where I think Yohji's true power lies.



    I do love the dresses, and leather gloves. Will post more thoughts when I get back from work!






































    let us raise a toast to ancient cotton, rotten voile, gloomy silk, slick carf, decayed goat, inflamed ram, sooty nelton, stifling silk, lazy sheep, bone-dry broad & skinny baffalo.

  2. #2

    Default Re: Yohji Yamamoto Womenswear FW07/08 Paris

    Very Japanese. Even for Yohji.

    Beautiful stuff though. A bit more wearable straight off the runway than usual as well. I know Yohji always uses black but I'm really impressed with how natural everything feels despite the plain palette.

  3. #3

    Default Re: Yohji Yamamoto Womenswear FW07/08 Paris

    This is a complete disappointment. Where are the beautiful coats and boots he usually makes for winter? Why does it all look a bit Carmen/hooker in that horrible ruffled Galliano way? And what is funny about parodying LV monograms? I'm sure you can unpick these looks and there will be beautiful trousers and skirts in the shops, but the show is crap. Until I change my mind, that is!

  4. #4

    Default Re: Yohji Yamamoto Womenswear FW07/08 Paris

    thanks for the images Avantster!

  5. #5

    Default Re: Yohji Yamamoto Womenswear FW07/08 Paris



    Okay, after seeing the whole collection, I am disappointed as well.



    First of all he shows a monogrammed leather coat with matching luggage - a not so subtle poke at LV. I can understand the idea behind it, but to me Yohji seemed like he'd be the last
    person who'd do something like this in such a garish way.












    These were the looks that didn't use any monograms or polka dots. I liked these more than the rest, but to me there was still something slightly uncomfortable about them. The angular cropped jackets, the dramatic flamingo ruffles... I just couldn't feel the usual sensuality I usually do.




























    This was probably my favourite look.







    The white bride marred by the monograms...






    Finally the man himself.








    let us raise a toast to ancient cotton, rotten voile, gloomy silk, slick carf, decayed goat, inflamed ram, sooty nelton, stifling silk, lazy sheep, bone-dry broad & skinny baffalo.

  6. #6
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    Default Re: Yohji Yamamoto Womenswear FW07/08 Paris



    I don't know what i think overall, but i like some indvidual looks and pieces. I like most of the Polka Dot dresses posted, i like how is used more like an accentto the black as oppse to the main pattern.And, i do see the similarity to galliano ruffles, but i think Yohji does it more flowing and natural, as oppose to Galliano's more structured ruffles.




    As for the monogram, i am not a fan of it, but i do feel he uses it more as a pattern rather than as a monogram. I know a monogram is essentially a pattern, but the way he uses it is different than the way LV or Gucci would use it. However, that monogran treach and luggage is awful and so are the trousers. I think it works on some of the dresses though.




    I love all the head pieces. And i agree with avanster's favorite look.




    I like this knit piece:






  7. #7
    kitsch killer Faust's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yohji Yamamoto Womenswear FW07/08 Paris



    I find the perception that a certain designer develops with his audience fascinating. I mean, if this was Rei Kawakubo, people would be fawning about how ironic and subversive she is using the monograms. We think of Yohji as a serious designer who is not really involved in pop culture, so when he does something like that we raise brows, lol.



    I think the collection is gorgeous where it's Yohji as we have come to know him, architectural, structured, but not overly exaggerated in volume. I think the leather jacket are a miss, they stand out as a sore thumb. I agree with dbc, where are his gorgeous coats? [^o)]

    Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

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  8. #8

    Default Re: Yohji Yamamoto Womenswear FW07/08 Paris



    Faust, that's such a good point about the monograms--the critic at style.com described the audience as being "shocked" [:O]. It's interesting that you mention Rei too--she calls the flag the "purest graphic symbol in existence" and then Yohji goes and juxtaposes a very un-pure (because so pointedly referential) monogram with a perfectly anonymous polka dot. I think he is being smarter than people are giving him credit for...



    I think the jackets look fantastic, although I share the mixed feelings about the leather. A few favorites:







    The construction of the first and last jackets looks so cool!




    I hope we can find a video of this, because apparently the ruffled dresses revolved?



    ...I mean the ephemeral, the fugitive, the contingent, the half of art whose other half is the eternal and the immutable.

  9. #9

    Default Re: Yohji Yamamoto Womenswear FW07/08 Paris

    [quote user="Faust"]

    if this was Rei Kawakubo, people would be fawning about how ironic and subversive she is



    [/quote]



    Absolutely! ...because Rei doesn't have that much to offer as an artist any more. Like Vivienne Westwood, she will always be a cause celebre for people who consider themselves in the fashion "know". When the clothes are hideous (unfortunately, very often these days) they can talk about the "concepts" (which would be considered cheap jokes in any other medium but fashion design). Yohji is a creative artist of genuine power. He shouldn't be bothering with that kind of bullshit.


  10. #10

    Default Re: Yohji Yamamoto Womenswear FW07/08 Paris



    Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but I really don't think the monograms are necessarily ironic. I think he's making a comment on the monogram itself--how it relates to pattern, ornament, and the body--rather than parodying the culture of logos. Why else would he pair it with the blank polka dots?[:^)]



    The irony reading is just to obvious and easy--Yohji is more mysterious than that.

    ...I mean the ephemeral, the fugitive, the contingent, the half of art whose other half is the eternal and the immutable.

  11. #11

    Default Re: Yohji Yamamoto Womenswear FW07/08 Paris



    This is what I think of after seeing the head piece and monogram.....traditional Japanese farming woman









    Maybe that's what Yohji has in his mind? hard working woman who he wants to create clothes for :)




    I don't think the monogram looks commercial in a way. Some of it works nicely though....like the one on the leather belt wrap. It looks like kimono.




    I don't think the leather works well in Yohji's collection too. They lookconfine(?) and body-forming....it's the opposite of what he's good at (or the way I like Yohji) ....the way he celebrates the movement and flow between the human body and his clothes.


  12. #12
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    Default Re: Yohji Yamamoto Womenswear FW07/08 Paris



    I like the idea of doing monogram:-), as I like the LV monogram, even it is so blatantly used, it is so well done. But I agree that this is too close to the LV.




    I think compararing with Rei is not so right. Rei is doing different things with graphics, print, logo, so it would not have been be a big surprise when she did monogram. Yamamoto doesn't do graphics much. He is so serious in women's wear so theshock is understood.




    The coats might be in his showroom? for the Y's line perharps?




  13. #13
    kitsch killer Faust's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yohji Yamamoto Womenswear FW07/08 Paris

    [quote user="nqth"]

    I like the idea of doing monogram:-), as I like the LV monogram, even it is so blatantly used, it is so well done. But I agree that this is too close to the LV.




    I think compararing with Rei is not so right. Rei is doing different things with graphics, print, logo, so it would not have been be a big surprise when she did monogram. Yamamoto doesn't do graphics much. He is so serious in women's wear so theshock is understood.




    The coats might be in his showroom? for the Y's line perharps?





    [/quote]



    I think the comparison is very right. There are two ways to think about a designer. #1 (and most preferred by me, I think the only pure one) is to judge the garments themselves. #2, to judge designers work as a socio-political commentary. To be honest, two is bullshit used to cover inadequate work - it's exactly the reason for proliferation of terrible contemporary art. Rei has been judged exclusively in terms of #2 in the past several seasons, for the reasons that dontbecruel pointed out. Go back to tFS or press reviews - it's all about "smart," "subversive," "ironic," etc. - there is not much discussion in terms of clothes. So, I don't see how my comment was unfair. If Rei did the monogram, people wouldn't be saying, "wow, the clothes look bad," - they'd be saying, "wow, she's so smart, subversive, ironic." Gold, Rolling Stones lips, Pink Panther? Give me a break.

    Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

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  14. #14

    Default Re: Yohji Yamamoto Womenswear FW07/08 Paris

    I respectfully disagree, Faust. Here's another comparison for you.

    Thomas Kincaid sells millions of paintings of beautiful sunsets and clouds and birds and city lights reflecting off the rain and gets acclaim for being a 'painter of light.' He possesses minimal talent to make photorealistic oil paintings on small formats, which are at best insipid and at worst complete trash. So if you completely ignore the fact that there is no concept, no motivation, no process aside from perhaps an acid trip accompanied with a couple lonely thoughts about how God is a lighthouse, Kincaid's work, judged on its own and considering nothing else, can be 'beautiful.'

    I don't think it's that simple. That's giving Thomas Kincaid and Yohji Yamamoto about the same amount of credit. Except in one case, you've developed a taste for Mr. Yamamoto's aesthetic (let's say the Thomas Kincaid of fashion is Ralph Lauren), so your favor is on his side. However, creating something aesthetically pleasing, to at minimum a niche market which exists enough to sell enough to make profit and is not really a form of art worth appreciating. That's personal style.

    Yamamoto IS making socio-economic statements, as well as statements about clothing and how we perceive what is fashion, what a fit is, what beauty is, how humans react to beauty and how we interact with it. All fashion designers have to be. If they aren't, they're just making clothes. That's style, but not fashion. Artisans (CCP, Altieri, Margiela) are a different discussion, IMO.

    I agree that on an optical level, Yohji's clothing is very pleasing, so thankfully he'll stay afloat for quite some time selling plain dress shirts and v-necks and sweaters and trousers and can continue designing. I couldn't say the same about Kawakubo, honestly, but whatever.

    Also hope no offense was taken by my post. It's an interesting topic... I constantly examine what it is about clothing I like and I often change the answer.

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    kitsch killer Faust's Avatar
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    Default Re: Yohji Yamamoto Womenswear FW07/08 Paris



    No offence taken.



    I think you either missed the point of my post, or I am missing the point of yours. Why would I be comparing Yamamoto to Lauren? Would you compare Jackson Pollock to Kincaid? Kitsch is not even entering a discussion here. I am talking about two great designers, one of whom in my eyes, with all due respect, no longer has much steam (Rei) and therefore has to resort to tricks, and can only get away with those tricks because she is so respected, and another one who seems to have steam, who doesn't have to resort to tricks but let the clothes speak for themselves. You look at Yohji's clothes and you don't have to make any abstractions - the sheer astounding beauty of it is staring at you. He IS an artisan, and WAS already an artisan when Maurizio was still wetting his bed (don't forget that Yohji did Haute Couture up until 2003, I think). You look at Rei clothes and think there is not much there, so you start abstracting, "well this is a political statement, this is a cultural statement, this is smart, this is ironic, bla, bla, bla." That's what I mean by socio-political (not socio-economical as you put it).



    And don't even go there about commercialism, Yohji is one of the few designers who doesn't have to produce jeans and tshirts in order to make money.

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    Default Re: Yohji Yamamoto Womenswear FW07/08 Paris

    [quote user="Faust"]


    I think the comparison is very right. There are two ways to think about a designer. #1 (and most preferred by me, I think the only pure one) is to judge the garments themselves. #2, to judge designers work as a socio-political commentary. To be honest, two is bullshit used to cover inadequate work - it's exactly the reason for proliferation of terrible contemporary art. Rei has been judged exclusively in terms of #2 in the past several seasons, for the reasons that dontbecruel pointed out. Go back to tFS or press reviews - it's all about "smart," "subversive," "ironic," etc. - there is not much discussion in terms of clothes. So, I don't see how my comment was unfair. If Rei did the monogram, people wouldn't be saying, "wow, the clothes look bad," - they'd be saying, "wow, she's so smart, subversive, ironic." Gold, Rolling Stones lips, Pink Panther? Give me a break.
    [/quote]




    First of all, I think we can'tcomparedesigners whenthey haven't actually made the work.




    Of course we can judge the garments themself. Then we can onlysee it fromtechnical points of view, if it is well designed, executed, sewn, dyed... But even in a technical context there are differences in judgement. And it doens't give you a whole view on things that happen and that make the end result in the garment.




    I think we can't compare designers simply because they work indifferent ways. Yamamoto seems to work with woman body inmind, to make women look beautiful. Yamamoto seems to be more fashion forward than RK. She works merely with ideas. Sometimes it's like a student's works: let make tongues, gold,or let's just twist the fabrics. The point is she makes her ideas to the end and then push morelater. She doesn't care much about the comfortable-wearable-beautiful-on the bodyresult. I think she might sometimes not know what will happen in the end.This is whyit is exciting. Of course it could look ridiculous. But that's what about doing new things. New in the context that never done like this before.




    Of course the "things that happen" mostly used to, as you said, cover inadequate works. It's difficult to see what is authenthic and what is not. But I think we just have to follow our instinc:-P


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    Default Re: Yohji Yamamoto Womenswear FW07/08 Paris

    [quote user="Faust"]


    And don't even go there about commercialism, Yohji is one of the few designers who doesn't have to produce jeans and tshirts in order to make money.
    [/quote]




    Oh come on Faust, what about Adidas or Y3? And his perfumes are big commercial projects.




    It's not that bad to make money, when you are doing interesting things.




    You can look at the same issue fromthe other side. Yamamoto clothes never ever make you think.They are beautifuletc, but that's it.




    RK collections always make you think why. Are they beautiful? This is what fashion ppl love:-)) Are they more than just clothes? Yes, some times they are. It's impossible to make it all the times.




  18. #18

    Default Re: Yohji Yamamoto Womenswear FW07/08 Paris

    It will be interesting to see how sales are with the monogrammed items. We all know there is a large population base that look for status symbols, and these YY status symbols could be a way of attracting sales from that population base in and outside of Japan. I think a truly socio-economic statement would be best conveyed if only it was produced for the runway. I feel that the statement, if that is what it is, will be lost once this hits stores.

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    Default Re: Yohji Yamamoto Womenswear FW07/08 Paris



    I would like to believe that he will go on with this and keeps producing interesting monogram rather than just made an "ironic" (which is not very ironic at all imo) comment on monograms. He could be the first of avantguards to have monogram:-P




    I think to make ironic comment one could wash out all the marks from the garments in the runway and show thatit is just a plan black leather coat or a luggage:-P



  20. #20

    Default Re: Yohji Yamamoto Womenswear FW07/08 Paris

    I wish he would keep it ironic and make a limited and brief production, but I feel like your hunch is going to be correct nqth, especially if sales are good.

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