Comme Des Garcons Womens F/W 08.09 Paris

[laika]

Re: Comme Des Garcons Womens F/W 08.09 Paris

[quote user="Faust"]

Ok, not that I'm a Sontag freak or anything, lol, but I just remembered this

"The discovery of the good taste of bad taste can be very liberating.
The man who insists on high and serious pleasures is depriving himself
of pleasure; he continually restricts what he can enjoy; in the
constant exercise of his good taste he will eventually price himself
out of the market, so to speak."

[/quote]

"Sometime it's more important to be human, than to have good taste."

Bertolt Brecht

[Faust]

Re: Comme Des Garcons Womens F/W 08.09 Paris

[quote user="Servo2000"]

I'm going to have to be the voice of exasperation: this is atrocious. I would say the better part of 90 percent of this is no more interesting and sometimes less-so than the typical gothic-lolita trappings of Fruits Magazine and their annals of irritation. "Amy Winehouse" is no better than doing a literal interpretation of Britney Spears, which is to say that they're both drugged up incompetents with a passable pop career. I'm not saying that there's nothing interesting there, I'm just saying that taking an inspiration and executing it in this manner is lazy and the results are exasperating.

While his interpretation appears to be much less literal, Margiela's examinations of these "media fiascoes" was far more interesting, although it seems that Rei is just drawn to the attitude.

[/quote]

Looks like that's exactly what Rei wanted? BTW, the only two outfits I like are pretty Yohjiesque.

[Servo2000]

Re: Comme Des Garcons Womens F/W 08.09 Paris

[quote user="Faust"][quote user="Servo2000"]

I'm going to have to be the voice of exasperation: this is atrocious. I would say the better part of 90 percent of this is no more interesting and sometimes less-so than the typical gothic-lolita trappings of Fruits Magazine and their annals of irritation. "Amy Winehouse" is no better than doing a literal interpretation of Britney Spears, which is to say that they're both drugged up incompetents with a passable pop career. I'm not saying that there's nothing interesting there, I'm just saying that taking an inspiration and executing it in this manner is lazy and the results are exasperating.

While his interpretation appears to be much less literal, Margiela's examinations of these "media fiascoes" was far more interesting, although it seems that Rei is just drawn to the attitude.

[/quote]

Looks like that's exactly what Rei wanted? BTW, the only two outfits I like are pretty Yohjiesque.

[/quote]

Yes, I see that now, as I completely missed Laika's post with an explanation and was literally under the impression that this was a collection based solely on Amy Winehouse, not, as I found out elsewhere, on "bad taste" in general. It made this threads hang up on the "taste" element of Winehouse rather confusing and makes my original post rather irrelevant, although it hasn't really improved my opinion of it much.

[laika]

Re: Comme Des Garcons Womens F/W 08.09 Paris



I'm disappointed with this, even after looking at the details. The construction is brilliant, as always, but I feel like the execution of the concept through the clothes is pretty hackneyed. I wish Rei would pull a Junya and go back to the simplicity of her 90's designs, or at least show a more studied exploration of materials and ideas. [72]

I did like this bit from Cathy Horyn's blog about trashiness as a counterpoint to polished, fashiony, luxury. Raf's observation is especially interesting:

"An American retailer said after the show that it was too bad the
collection wasn?t for spring?great for Valentine?s Day windows.

But, thinking more about Kawakubo, I think the trashiness, the
allure and counterpoint of trashiness, is very interesting at the
moment. Retailers, as well as financial
analysts and investors, have been asking: Where are the big trends? The
fashion business needs clear trends to help drive people into stores,
and lace and its variations (lacy lingerie, lace insets) could be the
hot ticket. Now I?m suddenly remembering that Alaia did lace about 18
months ago, as insets in dresses and peasant-style tops with ruching.

Anyway, I had a conversation recently with Raf Simons about
trashiness and breaking things down, since everything is so done up and
blandly luxurious. He feels it?s time for a change and I said that
while I shared his thought and wished there were more signs of
contentiousness in fashion, one has only to look around the streets to
see that people still seem to crave all the dressy, polished, showy
stuff. And if the economy in Europe, Japan and North America is under
pressure (yesterday the dollar/euro rate went above $1.50), then it?s
probably not a great business move at the moment to push something
radically different."

[Faust]

Re: Comme Des Garcons Womens F/W 08.09 Paris

Why does trashiness have to be a counterpoint to "done up and blandly luxurious"? Why can't quite elegance, or sobriety, or depth be the counterpoints - the way the Japanese and Belgians have been doing for decades? That's quite enough for me - I am not about to go out with a Jeremy Scott sweatshirt with $ signs on it to feel in opposition to luxurious blandness. Not to mention his irresponsible statement about the economy.

[laika]

Re: Comme Des Garcons Womens F/W 08.09 Paris



I think the fashion cycle just doesn't work that way, you know? Elegance, sobriety and depth are all forms of good taste, just like, "done up and blandly luxurious." A counterpoint would need to be something extreme, and also something that hasn't been around for awhile...something a little shocking.

I don't think Jeremy Scott counts though, as he's a very self-conscious, ironic, hipster kind of trashy. Rei seems to be referencing something more naive and common than that--a drugstore box of Valentine chocolates or lingerie from Victoria's Secret at the mall.

[Faust]

Re: Comme Des Garcons Womens F/W 08.09 Paris

[quote user="laika"]

I think the fashion cycle just doesn't work that way, you know? Elegance, sobriety and depth are all forms of good taste, just like, "done up and blandly luxurious." A counterpoint would need to be something extreme, and also something that hasn't been around for awhile...something a little shocking.

I don't think Jeremy Scott counts though, as he's a very self-conscious, ironic, hipster kind of trashy. Rei seems to be referencing something more naive and common than that--a drugstore box of Valentine chocolates or lingerie from Victoria's Secret at the mall.

[/quote]

I see. I just don't think it has a place, you know. The trash is omnipresent already. No matter how popular "done up and blandly luxurious" is... well, it's still not popular on a large scale, trash is. I am not sure who in context of high fashion, a niche phenomenon despite press coverage, would buy this (figuratively and literally speaking). What do you think?

[ddohnggo]

Re: Comme Des Garcons Womens F/W 08.09 Paris



[quote user="tims"]I keep thinking this is the Tim Burton Feb 14 2009 collection
[/quote]

i find this statement quite fitting with this collection.

[laika]

Re: Comme Des Garcons Womens F/W 08.09 Paris

[quote user="Faust"]

I see. I just don't think it has a place, you know. The trash is omnipresent already. No matter how popular "done up and blandly luxurious" is... well, it's still not popular on a large scale, trash is. I am not sure who in context of high fashion, a niche phenomenon despite press coverage, would buy this (figuratively and literally speaking). What do you think?

[/quote]

I was also thinking that the trash is ubiquitous already. TV is saturated with it.[79]

As for it becoming an actual trend...it sounds like wishful thinking to me. I take it as a plea to contest fashion's signs of [false] untouchability--all of the uber-expensive and hyper rarefied stuff, possession of which makes one feel part of the elite--with something common or accessible. At the risk of sounding pretentious, it's against the hegemony of "good taste," where good taste is just a hollow cloak of what convention says is luxurious.

Do you know what I mean? I'm not being very clear or articulate, but it's got me thinking....[8-|]

[Faust]

Re: Comme Des Garcons Womens F/W 08.09 Paris

[quote user="laika"][quote user="Faust"]

I see. I just don't think it has a place, you know. The trash is omnipresent already. No matter how popular "done up and blandly luxurious" is... well, it's still not popular on a large scale, trash is. I am not sure who in context of high fashion, a niche phenomenon despite press coverage, would buy this (figuratively and literally speaking). What do you think?

[/quote]

I was also thinking that the trash is ubiquitous already. TV is saturated with it.[79]

As for it becoming an actual trend...it sounds like wishful thinking to me. I take it as a plea to contest fashion's signs of [false] untouchability--all of the uber-expensive and hyper rarefied stuff, possession of which makes one feel part of the elite--with something common or accessible. At the risk of sounding pretentious, it's against the hegemony of "good taste," where good taste is just a hollow cloak of what convention says is luxurious.

Do you know what I mean? I'm not being very clear or articulate, but it's got me thinking....[8-|]

[/quote]

Ok, I'd say something, but I don't want to mention Sontag again [86].

I don't think uber-expensive and rarefied will go away any time soon... or ever. Believe me, we tried that in Mother Russia, and it doesn't work. It only makes people want things more (like starving someone). You can't go against human nature - it's competitive. As much as I dislike Veblen - he was right. I think saying no can only happen on a personal level, although society certainly helps one's antagonism (if you are a person who despises Paris Hilton, you probably will not want the things she possesses).

But today, even a counterculture is doomed. Society assimilates, cleanses, and neuters it too quickly. Marx really underestimated an adaptive nature of capitalism, and it is at its pinnacle now. You want to dissent?! By any means, please go ahead, here is a dissent kit, stylized and ready to consume. Hell, let us sponsor you in your rebellion! We'll be right there with you!

Remember what I wrote about style. v. stylization? Stylization is the result of this. The type of style championed here is an example, too. How many wear the stuff because they feel something when they wear it, and how many do because it's a certain style, a form with no content attached?

[philip nod]

Re: Comme Des Garcons Womens F/W 08.09 Paris

[quote user="Faust"][quote user="laika"][quote user="Faust"]

I see. I just don't think it has a place, you know. The trash is omnipresent already. No matter how popular "done up and blandly luxurious" is... well, it's still not popular on a large scale, trash is. I am not sure who in context of high fashion, a niche phenomenon despite press coverage, would buy this (figuratively and literally speaking). What do you think?

[/quote]

I was also thinking that the trash is ubiquitous already. TV is saturated with it.[79]

As for it becoming an actual trend...it sounds like wishful thinking to me. I take it as a plea to contest fashion's signs of [false] untouchability--all of the uber-expensive and hyper rarefied stuff, possession of which makes one feel part of the elite--with something common or accessible. At the risk of sounding pretentious, it's against the hegemony of "good taste," where good taste is just a hollow cloak of what convention says is luxurious.

Do you know what I mean? I'm not being very clear or articulate, but it's got me thinking....[8-|]

[/quote]

Ok, I'd say something, but I don't want to mention Sontag again [86].

I don't think uber-expensive and rarefied will go away any time soon... or ever. Believe me, we tried that in Mother Russia, and it doesn't work. It only makes people want things more (like starving someone). You can't go against human nature - it's competitive. As much as I dislike Veblen - he was right. I think saying no can only happen on a personal level, although society certainly helps one's antagonism (if you are a person who despises Paris Hilton, you probably will not want the things she possesses).

But today, even a counterculture is doomed. Society assimilates, cleanses, and neuters it too quickly. Marx really underestimated an adaptive nature of capitalism, and it is at its pinnacle now. You want to dissent?! By any means, please go ahead, here is a dissent kit, stylized and ready to consume. Hell, let us sponsor you in your rebellion! We'll be right there with you!

Remember what I wrote about style. v. stylization? Stylization is the result of this. The type of style championed here is an example, too. How many wear the stuff because they feel something when they wear it, and how many do because it's a certain style, a form with no content attached?

[/quote]

we can thank her father

[zamb]

Re: Comme Des Garcons Womens F/W 08.09 Paris



Nice Discussion,

Carry on,

Makes me imagine that i am i Ancient Greece, listening to Heracletus, Thales, Parmenides, Pythagoras etc ...........[74]

and they said fashion was Vain and Shallow, How can it really be, if we can see the state of our world through it?

[Faust]

Re: Comme Des Garcons Womens F/W 08.09 Paris

Who is that, pnod? One of Ozzy's creations?

[philip nod]

Re: Comme Des Garcons Womens F/W 08.09 Paris

nope. somebody must know, its a pretty easy one i think.

[ddohnggo]

Re: Comme Des Garcons Womens F/W 08.09 Paris

FRANCES BEANNNNNNNNNNNN