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  • zamb
    Senior Member
    • Nov 2006
    • 5834

    #16
    Originally posted by C'est Fini
    So no criticism for the forums in-house designer?

    Three cheers
    No, you can trouble me if you want
    So long as your words are meaningful, I dont mind................
    “You know,” he says, with a resilient smile, “it is a hard world for poets.”
    .................................................. .......................


    Zam Barrett Spring 2017 Now in stock

    Comment

    • deleuze
      Senior Member
      • Jul 2007
      • 418

      #17
      ^^^I don't see how this collection in any way acquiesces to the SZ clientele. It all looks very Zamb from the detailing to the fabric choices to the cuts and is exactly what I would expect from him. More interesting than Rag & Bone, not as directional as Gustavo Lins, ideal clothing for a white collar man with blue collar values and dreams of being an aristocrat. I don't know what the fuck that means but I think the line is more suited to Bergdorf or even Jeffrey than Atelier.

      Comment

      • C'est Fini
        Member
        • Sep 2009
        • 75

        #18
        Deleuze,

        I merely stated my opinion.
        I want to know where zam is coming from. Anything wrong with that?
        I dont want to get into cyclic originality debate.
        Why does he use terms like 'hammered leather and object dyed'?
        Everyone is jumping on this bandwagon.
        While it seems derivative to me, I am questioning zamb to prove otherwise.
        Fashion doesnt revolve around atelier NY's taste._They are a great store with a great outlook no doubt.
        Last edited by C'est Fini; 04-26-2010, 10:59 AM.

        Comment

        • zamb
          Senior Member
          • Nov 2006
          • 5834

          #19
          Originally posted by C'est Fini View Post
          Deleuze,

          I merely stated my opinion.
          I want to know where zam is coming from. Anything wrong with that?
          I dont want to get into cyclic originality debate.
          Why does he use terms like 'hammered leather and object dyed'?
          Everyone is jumping on this bandwagon.

          While it seems derivative to me, I am questioning zamb to prove otherwise.
          Fashion doesnt revolve around atelier NY's taste._They are a great store with a great outlook no doubt.
          Have a lot to do and going out to take care of a few things so I will answer you on my return.

          It's called "hammered" leather because the leather was kinda stiff and was "hammered" with a hammer to make it softer.............so there you go......

          It"s called object dyed because the piece was dyed after it was made..............as an "object" instead of pre-made raw materials.

          All Fashion/ clothing is derivative in one way or another............ anyone who thinks otherwise is either delusional or misguided. One can create a new style of Pocket but its still "just a pocket" so no need to get overly worked up about it.
          Some of my work is "original" some "derivative" nothing wrong with that...............just doing what i love and have struggled my entire adult life to continue doing with integrity and purity of soul.

          will say more later,

          Blessings
          ZB
          “You know,” he says, with a resilient smile, “it is a hard world for poets.”
          .................................................. .......................


          Zam Barrett Spring 2017 Now in stock

          Comment

          • eat me
            Senior Member
            • May 2009
            • 648

            #20
            I kind of agree with C'est Fini. Although I suppose we might as well prepare to be annihilated for saying this; this forum can sometimes be quite emotional when it comes to critique of well loved members/brands/designers/....

            To me, this looks like a tribute to favorite/most prominent pieces/features from *********** crowd of designers.

            I guess there will be plenty of orders, if priced right, and on their own, they are nice pieces and I don't doubt Zamb's craftsmanship or patterncutting. But it's not a collection. There is no cohesion, mood or story, nothing that says - yeah, this is ZB; if these pieces would display themselves in a manner of a lookbook, on models, it'd be clear as day.

            PS - the bags are really a standout, and capable to stand on their own.
            PPS - I trust you'll take this minor critism in good spirit Zamb.
            Last edited by eat me; 04-26-2010, 12:00 PM.

            Comment

            • christianef
              Senior Member
              • Feb 2009
              • 747

              #21
              what's the price point, better iterations can often lose to better price. no discredit to this work, though. the compass will probably point back to sz in one way or another for anything that stems from here. even christian's salvaged furniture bare's the cross. looks legit for a first collection, will have a market on here and can see it working in newyork for sure. some background from zamb may be useful the fashion world doesnt revolve around atelier but not every designer wants to be poell ( despite the object dye semblance.) i have friends who are happy making far more than i do designing jersey tank lines for kids. not to equate this with that but you know.

              way better than your brother NEIL, zamb.

              Comment

              • C'est Fini
                Member
                • Sep 2009
                • 75

                #22
                the term object dyed- has deep rooted connections with CCP.
                It is a term he came up with- While,garment dying has been done by yohji,comme etc it wasnt until carol did we see a shoe/leather jacket being dyed post production in the tanning barrels.- Hence the term object dyed. I associate the term with carol. Why not use the word garment dyed? Its a fairly generic term.

                Hammering leather wont make a stiff leather much softer my friend- Treating it with certain oils will- Hammering might help afterward.
                When you use the term 'hammered leather' you immediately strike a chord with those fans of Rick Owens/etc. Cut the jargon is all that I am saying. It goes a long way.

                I am a firm believer that the product, above all, should do the talking.

                While your bags might reveal your influences, they do not come across the same way as your clothes- they dont look tired.
                Like i said, the leather doesnt look too great- but...if you focus on that and the components i can see them going a long way.

                For example, I still think that Amadei's strength is in his bags and accessories. His clothes and shoes take second place.
                Rick Owens- we all know- Leather outerwear Lord.
                Maurizio- Shoe/leather guru.
                Carol - the psycho tailor.
                Luc- knit genius.
                Paul Harnden - Faggin

                and so on and so forth.

                While they might all produce full collections, they all started with their best foot forward.

                Comment

                • kuugaia
                  Senior Member
                  • Feb 2010
                  • 1007

                  #23
                  Originally posted by zamb View Post
                  All Fashion/ clothing is derivative in one way or another............ anyone who thinks otherwise is either delusional or misguided.
                  "Nothing of me is original. I am the combined effort of everybody I've ever known." Chuck Palahniuk

                  Items look quite wide from the flat images, is that the type of silhouette you were aiming for?

                  Comment

                  • DHC
                    Senior Member
                    • Jul 2007
                    • 2155

                    #24
                    Originally posted by C'est Fini View Post
                    the term object dyed- has deep rooted connections with CCP.
                    It is a term he came up with- While,garment dying has been done by yohji,comme etc it wasnt until carol did we see a shoe/leather jacket being dyed post production in the tanning barrels.- Hence the term object dyed. I associate the term with carol. Why not use the word garment dyed? Its a fairly generic term.

                    Hammering leather wont make a stiff leather much softer my friend- Treating it with certain oils will- Hammering might help afterward.
                    When you use the term 'hammered leather' you immediately strike a chord with those fans of Rick Owens/etc. Cut the jargon is all that I am saying. It goes a long way.

                    I am a firm believer that the product, above all, should do the talking.

                    While your bags might reveal your influences, they do not come across the same way as your clothes- they dont look tired.
                    Like i said, the leather doesnt look too great- but...if you focus on that and the components i can see them going a long way.

                    For example, I still think that Amadei's strength is in his bags and accessories. His clothes and shoes take second place.
                    Rick Owens- we all know- Leather outerwear Lord.
                    Maurizio- Shoe/leather guru.
                    Carol - the psycho tailor.
                    Luc- knit genius.
                    Paul Harnden - Faggin

                    and so on and so forth.

                    While they might all produce full collections, they all started with their best foot forward.
                    Are you being serious? LMAO! If your going to start policing people for using terms like object-dyed and labeling them all derivative, you've got a long list of designers out there to start tackling. I do understand what you are saying and where you are coming from...for instance: Luca used the term over-dyed as opposed to garment/object dyed. Ok, argument in your favor there, but you have to remember you can find examples of this everywhere. Michel Berandi used the hammered leather (and yes, he called it hammered leather [hammered using oils in the process/c'est fini correct]) long before I know of it entering Rick's selection of materials. Why not jump on Rick about that one?

                    Zamb, I am digging the idea of the siamese tote. Very nice. However, I do have to agree with C'est Fini in that my initial response to the leather used on the bags isn't very favorable, but without actually handling the pieces..this is simply speculation. Ok, trying to be constructive here and that's the only criticism I care to share. BTW, stitch work looks great on the outerwear (at least from what I can see). Keep up the good work Z! SALVT!
                    Last edited by DHC; 04-26-2010, 01:18 PM.
                    Originally posted by Faust
                    fuck you, i don't have an attitude problem.

                    Sartorialoft

                    "She is very ninja, no?" ~Peter Jevnikar

                    Comment

                    • Raw Edge
                      Senior Member
                      • Jan 2008
                      • 428

                      #25
                      what do you mean by "faggin" in this context? I am not up on british slang, but is this a compliment or gaybashing?

                      Zamb certainly does have his own unique style- you can see by the pocket detailing and leather patches, and various other subtle details. carol christian poell didn't invent the blazer nor rick the leather jacket, its always their details that innovate, and I believe zamb has made excellent advancements in his fields as well.
                      not to mention...not everything needs to be cutting edge. most clothing people actually wear here is...just nice, well made clothing.


                      Zamb, everything looks great in the photos, looking forward to seeing in person!
                      the design of the dna and j pants especially...

                      Originally posted by C'est Fini View Post
                      the term object dyed- has deep rooted connections with CCP.
                      It is a term he came up with- While,garment dying has been done by yohji,comme etc it wasnt until carol did we see a shoe/leather jacket being dyed post production in the tanning barrels.- Hence the term object dyed. I associate the term with carol. Why not use the word garment dyed? Its a fairly generic term.

                      Hammering leather wont make a stiff leather much softer my friend- Treating it with certain oils will- Hammering might help afterward.
                      When you use the term 'hammered leather' you immediately strike a chord with those fans of Rick Owens/etc. Cut the jargon is all that I am saying. It goes a long way.

                      I am a firm believer that the product, above all, should do the talking.

                      While your bags might reveal your influences, they do not come across the same way as your clothes- they dont look tired.
                      Like i said, the leather doesnt look too great- but...if you focus on that and the components i can see them going a long way.

                      For example, I still think that Amadei's strength is in his bags and accessories. His clothes and shoes take second place.
                      Rick Owens- we all know- Leather outerwear Lord.
                      Maurizio- Shoe/leather guru.
                      Carol - the psycho tailor.
                      Luc- knit genius.
                      Paul Harnden - Faggin

                      and so on and so forth.

                      While they might all produce full collections, they all started with their best foot forward.

                      Comment

                      • Faust
                        kitsch killer
                        • Sep 2006
                        • 37852

                        #26
                        Originally posted by Raw Edge View Post
                        what do you mean by "faggin" in this context? I am not up on british slang, but is this a compliment or gaybashing?
                        I would imagine he meant a Dickens character, only he misspelled it.
                        Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                        StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                        Comment

                        • Johnny
                          Senior Member
                          • Sep 2006
                          • 1923

                          #27
                          mini lol at that^

                          Comment

                          • Faust
                            kitsch killer
                            • Sep 2006
                            • 37852

                            #28
                            I don't think much of this is SZ related. I can see some resemblance in the cut of the pants - but J-shape is actually a more common cut than C'est Fini suggests - Galliano has been doing it, Dirk Schonberger too. It does not belong to Carol or Julius. As for the rest, it's very much Zam's own. As for your appeals to cohesion, eat_me, you maybe surprised, but I have seen many of these garments on Zam and they indeed go together. If you are looking for some kind of a theme, a-la Ann, you won't find it, just like you won't find them in CDiem or Poell, the guys who concentrate on the garment itself rather than on presenting a larger theme.
                            Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde

                            StyleZeitgeist Magazine

                            Comment

                            • Sombre
                              Senior Member
                              • Jan 2009
                              • 1291

                              #29
                              Originally posted by C'est Fini
                              Ok now we all know the details seen here are a little too familiar.
                              The much too hyped 'J' pant.
                              " overlock stitch
                              Shiny Crushed shirts( Im sorry zam but I can tell how a fabric is going to feel by just looking at it) - Metal gets itchy after a few washes.
                              Leather doesnt seem inviting either, seems dry and stiff.
                              What is the story behind the material? If there is one- i would like to know. What painstaking lengths do you go to acquire your fabric?
                              I need a story.

                              Over all the feeling I get is a mish mash of hyped/popular sz pieces.
                              Where is the attack?
                              Where are you confronting/challenging your audience?
                              What is the point of this creation?- just to be consumed? please.
                              I presume you are a thinking man.

                              Is this all for SZ? People here are being nice because youre a veteran forum member- any new designer would be bombarded with questions. Im taking a neutral stand here. My questions are meaningful enough.

                              Id like to hear your point of view.
                              Talk everyone through the collection.
                              Myself, and everyone out there for that matter would like to know why you decide to pair a sheeny'hammered leather' vest with a ruffled shirt/crushed silk white shirt and overlocked jeans when better iterations of the same could be found elsewhere.


                              That said, the bags dont look that bad, but you could do with better leather and components. If i were you id stick to that.
                              Originally posted by C'est Fini View Post
                              Deleuze,

                              I merely stated my opinion.
                              I want to know where zam is coming from. Anything wrong with that?
                              I dont want to get into cyclic originality debate.
                              Why does he use terms like 'hammered leather and object dyed'?
                              Everyone is jumping on this bandwagon.

                              While it seems derivative to me, I am questioning zamb to prove otherwise.
                              Fashion doesnt revolve around atelier NY's taste._They are a great store with a great outlook no doubt.
                              While the rest of your inquiry may be valid, I'm going to take issue with the bolded sentences. What is wrong with the terminology Zam uses? Have you considered how inauthentic your own lexical selections appear? Shall I assail you for those options? Do I not seem pretentious when I meaninglessly opt not to use simpler words? Nothing is wrong with the descriptions Zam has given. What else do you want him call a leather piece he hammered?

                              As for the collection itself, I see much more Zam than I do popular SZ designers. The man has been making those shirts and vests for a long time. If I recall, he prefers a slim leg to his pants, so the J-shape and the DNA pants aren't terribly surprising either. I'll admit I had never heard of J-shaped pants before I joined SZ, but I assume all the designers didn't spawn them simultaneously, so if the origin of these pants really does come from one of these designers, clearly everyone else is following, in which case everyone except that one designer deserves criticism.

                              One point I will agree with you about is that I'd like to see some styling to see how the garments relate to each other.
                              An artist is not paid for his labor, but for his vision. - James Whistler

                              Originally posted by BBSCCP
                              I order 1 in every size, please, for every occasion

                              Comment

                              • DHC
                                Senior Member
                                • Jul 2007
                                • 2155

                                #30
                                Originally posted by SombreResplendence View Post
                                As for the collection itself, I see much more Zam than I do popular SZ designers.
                                Word!
                                Originally posted by Faust
                                fuck you, i don't have an attitude problem.

                                Sartorialoft

                                "She is very ninja, no?" ~Peter Jevnikar

                                Comment

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