Twilight of the Brands - A MUST READ

[Faust]

How do you explain Givenchy then? Tisci's first few collections were undoubtedly better made and aesthetically superior to the current stuff. In fact, Givenchy's recent offerings demonstrate a certain progression backwards, where their own ideas are watered down to end up looking like OAK or something. At Luisaviaroma, the most 'intricate' piece from SS14 is a nylon parka with a retail of just under 5k. Do you think this is simply 'cos people haven't yet realised the brand's claims of quality etc are not really there?

Basically, yes, you have answered your own question.

EDIT: Wanted to elaborate. I do think people will eventually move on. Yes, not very soon and not everyone - hence my disclaimer in the OP. But there is plenty of precedent, particularly the overextending of luxury French brands in the 70s/80s by indiscriminate licensing.

[Dorje]

Yes that's a pretty strong argument you have here Dorje. ;)

Thanks!

I do think lower quality will be tolerated to some extent depending on the customer as design is the 1st priority... Nobody will buy clothes they don't like no matter how good the quality.

But the AnnD jeans I was talking about retail for about $700. The quality is on par with a pair of H&M jeans for $20, no exaggeration. It was horrible. I can't imagine anyone would be ok with this, it may be tolerated for a while but after so many disappointments I think even die hard AnnD fans would start looking elsewhere.

Nobody likes being ripped off and spending big $$$ for clothes with horrible quality is a rip off. So while some folks may not feel ripped off and only care about the design, there will be plenty of others who will care and I would be willing to bet it will cause a loss of sales to some extent. Actually, I can guarantee it, because I am at least ONE customer who will think twice about buying AnnD again, and would definitely not buy if there isn't a good return policy.

IDK, maybe this is why she's leaving. I couldn't live with myself if I was offering those jeans for sale at $700, I would feel like I was ripping people off and taking advantage of them.

[grapefruitpop]

Quality is nice, but not the first consideration for me personally when buying "luxury fashion". And I think many people are the same whether they are transparent with themselves or not

[Ahimsa]

I bought my gf a light Helmut jacket from Barney's and the left pocket was apparently tacked to the side seam and therefore one really couldn't put their hand it. Brought it back for an exchange of a new one and the same jacket was marked up by $40 since I had gotten it. However, the non-black ones were marked at the original price (same materials, different color) . So basically it seemed like the only reason they marked it up was because it was black. Despite the quality, this shows that a brand may charge more for something solely based on the popularity of a color knowing full well that it's the aesthetic that draws them as opposed to the superior quality.

[eleves]

I used to purchase my everyday sneakers from this japanese brand called visvim, which some folks here should be familiar with. Back in the day I found it to be the pinnacle of well made, very comfortable and unfussy footwear. Prices too were reasonable, something like 300 to 350 usd for full leather on rubber sole. It lasted 5 years with constant wear.

My converse on the other hand look like they're ready to be discarded even before a year of wear. You do the math.

Nowadays, visvim is a japanese flagship brand. But while prices have doubled I find the quality of their stuff has gradually eroded. Sometimes it is not in the best interests of the consumer for a brand to be recognised as a major player in the market.

You are absolutely right about this. I remember being in high school back in the days when Union on Spring St in NY was the only shop that had a visvim account around these parts. Quality was unmatched in their stuff, it was the first time that I was introduced to the realm of really well made footwear with a price tag to match. Now, it's hard to imagine how much the prices have risen for something that is nowhere near what it used to be. I honestly don't even know when visvim started to become such a global thing. It was sad to see their production shift in order to reach these higher and larger orders. I remember reading something about Hiroki Nakamura speaking to Edison Chen about raising prices, and it's surprising to see that visvim still manages to sell out at their exorbitant prices. I mean, they still have pretty good quality but kinda sad to see these ridiculous charges for pieces that have clearly dropped off from earlier days. You are definitely right when it comes to the being recognized, I feel that for NY at least, the days post Bergdorf carrying visvim were the good ones. It was right around then when i noticed the growth of the brand but decrease in the quality. They used to offer re-soling for free on all of their footwear, I wonder if that's still the case

[Faust]

Not to derail this further but I also just wanted to note that Visvim is beyond my comprehension. I think these guys should be praying to Superfuture.

[eleves]

Not to derail this further but I also just wanted to note that Visvim is beyond my comprehension. I think these guys should be praying to Superfuture.

Honestly, I haven't worn visvim in years, and it's definitely not a "stylezeitgeist" brand. Visvim is however, my favorite example of brand loyals paying much higher prices for an obviously lesser product while still having the company grow even more. Prices are literally doubled from what they used to be around 2007-2008. visvim can release ridiculous things and still have them sell out. Now that visvim is endorsed by the whole other "menswear" crowd (and Kanye West), it looks to grow even more. But hey, good for Mr. Nakamura.

[Faust]

So, we are back to square one of StyleZeitgeist - Kanye West ruins everything.

[u-ti]

when thinking of prices & quality in relation to brand recognition,

Dorje was comparing an AnnD $700 pair of jeans to a H&M $20 pair of jeans. This is a pretty obvious choice for consumers, although the cut, design would differ (I dont know the exact garment so I will not go further into this comparison)

But when an unknown new brand had made something equally high,or even better quality as a known brand that produces good stuff, then I think the choice of the consumer becomes interesting, if one has a certain loyalty to the known brand or if they chose purely on the qualities of the garment ...

just a flowing thought so no real conclusion though, sorry