What's a Store For?

[Dorje]

DWWM, as someone who does not usually have the option of visiting a B&M store to see what I like in person, I would say you get used to the delays, returns and disappointment involved with online shopping and don't think about it much anymore. I've forgotten I've ordered things in the past and have been pleasantly surprised when they show up...

[fncyths]

it's not about the clothes? clothes shops are not about the clothes?

"just don't take any of it too seriously, or you'll miss the whole point."




I've been on hold for over 15 minutes with GILT, the call center is still trying to figure out a good leather bar for me to go to on a Friday night...

[casem]

Speaking of problems with buying online, why did ssense stop showing jackets CLOSED for god's sake it's impossible to tell how it fits if I don't know if the buff model can zip it over his toned pecs how am I supposed to know if it will fit ME???

[Faust]

FMC, I agree for the most part. Nothing will replace the personal interaction with a garment - that's the bottom line. I mean, that's how I fell in love with certain designers, on the garment level, pre-Internet.

I will point out however that imagery is important because it allows the designer to clearly define his aesthetic. Ann is most Ann not when you are looking a a blazer or a pair of boots but when she sends her men and women down the runway. That's the Ann world. Same for Rick, Yohji, you know the deal. And you can fall in love with that just like you fall in love with a musician, an artist, etc. THEN you can proceed to disassemble it to see what fits [both figuratively and literally] and what doesn't. But in quite a few cases you don't have to disassemble it only because it fits so perfectly with you.

About the stores without e-commerce, these will continue to dwindle and will go away completely once the old guard places like IF in NYC and Eastern Market in Melbourne, which attract an older clientele that they have nourished and that remain loyal.

One important point related to the above. As prices continue to rise at the ridiculous place and more and more people will continue to be priced out and thus fight for every percentage point, price will become an ever more important determinant behind a purchasing decision. And until designers AND stores realize that they and their customers are all in this together and form a symbiosis, this will continue to get worse.

Paul Harnden has been the worst offender (following in Poell's footsteps). After he saw an increased interest due to places like StyleZeitgeist, he has been raising his prices 15% a year on average. A simple math exercise: I bought a PH jacket this spring at L'Eclaireur that a couple of years ago would have cost $1,500 for $2,200. I sold the jacket on classifieds here for the same price. I was happy to get my money back, the buyer was happy because the same jacket at IF costs $2,600 + tax. So, he saved $500. Whichever way you put it, unless you are one of the 1%, $500 is $500. Price discrepancies simply weren't this large in the past.

[bukka]

And, also, dealing with the Internet purchases can be a major pain in the ass. Wrong sizing, bad photos, shipping, customs, returns, refunds, etc - it's enough to drive anyone nuts. All of us at one time or the other got not what we expected through an Internet purchase.

I was going to write this. I'm really reluctant to buy any clothes on internet because of this major pain in the ass. Even other types of products (like furniture) are heavily taxed at customs and therefore are not part of what I buy on internet (mainly books).

Something that wasn't really point out yet, but that's maybe more specific to my country (Switzerland), we are very conscious about where our money goes, and we will try to keep it here rather than sending it abroad, even if it costs you more.

[BSR]

Something that wasn't really point out yet, but that's maybe more specific to my country (Switzerland), we are very conscious about where our money goes, and we will try to keep it here rather than sending it abroad, even if it costs you more.

Yeah you folks don't seem to want to share anything anymore with the rest of the world

re the prices evolution, afaik PH is in a very specific case (very unlike CCP, but maybe like MA+): he has his moment for 3 years now, so he feels he can earn more out of his brand, but doesn't want to increase the size of his buisiness and its production volumes. So he raises his prices, quite ridiculously, by 15%/20% every season. Which prevents me from buying anything anymore from him. There is a limit and he has crossed it. And his fabrics are not as top notch as they should be at this new level of price. Re the comparison with CCP, i was ok with buying a PH jacket for 1200€, but when it almost reaches the 1700€ bar, and a Carol blazer retails for 1850€, it's not very difficult to see who is getting the best margin. Even if we like Paul, his technical skills and his fabrics are not at all on the same level.

[Faust]

Thank you, FMC. The first part of your post is probably one of the best arguments in favor of a physical store. I'd just point out that more and more e-commerce driven sites realizes this and offer free shipping and free returns to accommodate this uncertainty.

I like your vinyl analogy. I did not mean to be so categorical either. Let's stick to "dwindle" instead of "go away" :-)

[bukka]

And, if you're actually interested in helping the industry and supporting designers, you choose younger and lesser know designers fill that other price point. Nobody starting up is charging PH prices unless they're either fucking insane or have an unhealthy dislike of making money.

I'm not so sure about this, Aitor Throup launched his first product line in 2010, only 4 years ago. Other "younger" designers like Plokhov or Yang Li are quite expensive as well. I noticed that LN-CC applied a massive price reduction for Yang Li stuff though. Seems that trying to put their prices too high right from the start wasn't the best decision. Anyway, this is not strictly related to the "store" topic.

And all of you are very welcome in my boring country

[Fuuma]

I'm reading another Faust article on the same topic (http://www.businessoffashion.com/201...moditised.html) and just came upon this citation (emphasis is mine):

"Today, the same products are often available at many stores across the world — and, despite differences in visual merchandising, the rise of global e-commerce makes this homogeneity plainly visible, threatening to commoditise the role of the traditional fashion retailer."

I'm heavily WTF-ing the whole thing, considering what fashion retailers have always been (rag pushers for the upper classes and aspirational upper-middle). It used to be about the music, man!

note: the main point about stores losing their roles as being determinant in having customer chose what to buy I get.

[Faust]

Your rag-pusher for the rich comment reflects the typical ultra-cynical stance you take on many things, so I'll meet and raise your WTF.

[Faust]

By the way, in celebration of my article Band of Outsiders launched e-commerce today.

[Fuuma]

Your rag-pusher for the rich comment reflects the typical ultra-cynical stance you take on many things, so I'll meet and raise your WTF.

I never show cynicism TBH, I just avoid sugar-coating what should be revealed in the most intelligible way.

What I am saying is simply this: a commercial store selling luxury/designer clothing is in the business of selling commodities, its status as a cultural influencer having no impact on that undeniable fact.

[endorphinz]

a store is a taste maker when it's main focus is more of a cultural one.

it's not about the clothes people.

the web will never be able to replace that.

before wallpaper city guides and time out if you wanted to really know what was happening in a city you went to record shops and vintage boutiques. the sa's were artists, musicians, party kids, who had their fingers on the pulse. they'd dial you in on cool art shows to check out, where their favorite dinning spots were, and what underground happenings were going on. oh, and if you needed some new duds to wear, they'd point you in the right direction.

to me, that's what fashion is. it's what it will always be.

it's not about the clothes.

and as "supporters" of this ideal, it's us as the "consumers" who have the power to make this new paradigm right, instead of watching it spiral out.

^i like this

Good post! I am old enough to remember record stores, going in and spending money on tapes, then CDs...

you're not that old if you don't remember spinning vinyl in record stores to preview an album

the following is just my opinion. not looking to engage and participate in a venomous back and forth.... agree or disagree, it's all good

I always chuckle when I read comments about the "new" stratospheric pricing.

A reality check would prove that prices of sz approved stuff (I KNOW) have always resided in outer space.

I kinda agree with the adage
"if you have to ask how much,you can't afford it"; herein lies the problem.
MANY people buying this stuff have no real business buying it. They are luxury goods meant to be purchased by a specific demographic,a very small demographic for whom $$$$ really doesn't matter. These people don't treat clothes as a commodity. They don't resell them to fuel new purchases. They don't need to. They can actually afford them. The new purchases too.

Kanye may be an asshole but I know he's not worried about 20% price increases. Same with Orlando Bloom & Jude Law etc.

So,when ragging on these celebs maybe one should ask who are the real poseurs are.

Not sayin that it's always wrong to buy stuff you can't afford;just sayin you always need to realize what playground you are playing in.

Sometimes it's prudent just to take your ball and go home.

*edit* I should add that most days I choose to vacate the playground.

[Dorje]

you're not that old if you don't remember spinning vinyl in record stores to preview an album

the following is just my opinion. not looking to engage and participate in a venomous back and forth.... agree or disagree, it's all good

I always chuckle when I read comments about the "new" stratospheric pricing.

A reality check would prove that prices of sz approved stuff (I KNOW) have always resided in outer space.

I kinda agree with the adage
"if you have to ask how much,you can't afford it"; herein lies the problem.
MANY people buying this stuff have no real business buying it. They are luxury goods meant to be purchased by a specific demographic,a very small demographic for whom $$$$ really doesn't matter. These people don't treat clothes as a commodity. They don't resell them to fuel new purchases. They don't need to. They can actually afford them. The new purchases too.

Kanye may be an asshole but I know he's not worried about 20% price increases. Same with Orlando Bloom & Jude Law etc.

So,when ragging on these celebs maybe one should ask who are the real poseurs are.

Not sayin that it's always wrong to buy stuff you can't afford;just sayin you always need to realize what playground you are playing in.

Sometimes it's prudent just to take your ball and go home.

My first purchase was a cassette tape, Jimi Hendrix "Are You Experienced"... vinyl was still popular but too much of an investment for a kid too young to work. By the time I could afford vinyl CDs were out and I didn't know any better, I followed the herd and bought them instead of vinyl. Big mistake but I didn't know better then. Now, digital has caught up and is so easy... what are those stupid silver discs?

As far as lifestyle, we all have to balance planning for a future (that may never happen) with the fact we only live once and why die the richest man in the graveyard and live like a miser your whole life? Like everything there is a balance that works for each of us, some may be more or less to one side. It is an individual's choice so it's hard to tell people what is reasonable to spend on luxury items.

When you say poseurs, I can understand that in the case of someone dressing to project an image of wealth in order to manipulate other people, but I'm not sure than applies to the average clothes worn by members of this forum. The "Stranger's Reactions" thread seems to confirm this on strong anecdotal evidence....

I'm pretty sure what will happen is prices will increase as long as people are willing to pay and the pieces sell. I'm not sure it's much more complicated than that?

[endorphinz]

^
actually was referring to the calling of celebs poseurs.

and yes everyone finances are their own business:I never judge. my point was that one needs to realize what they are purchasing and just go with the flow.... or not.

and, I've gotten rid of all my vinyl. it makes no sense for me today. I have 2gbs of music on a drive the size of a deck of cards.

*edit* 2 TERABYTES not gbs