Is it time for a Reboot?

[round]

Chill out, Mr. round. Read what I wrote. I said 1> I'm not specifically talking about Zam, but you still take me as talking about him. 2> I clarified I didn't mean the artisanal designers like Zam want to be Rick, but are natural to desire also great success that Rick has won, yeah, their own success, I didn't say they want to contribute to Rick's success, OK? What's the fun to keep misinterpreting what I wrote?

And what am I supposed to say if not "sorry", "I'm so glad you are offended"?

I can't tell if you are posting seriously, or just posting in an attempt to get a higher post count. Reread your own post, you are pushing your notions of "success" onto others and every post you have made thus far within this thread has been pointless, and frankly, quite confusing, I am not sure what point you are trying to make at all, you just keep throwing in random metaphors and bullshit muddling your point. I don't understand what you are trying to say, and I can see that this isn't going to go anywhere, going to stop responding now.

[resinous]

thanks. will send an email to angie. a repair would be preferred if possible.

[NOHSAD]

From a consumer standpoint, here's what I think

1: Designers should, at the very least, re-evaluate their pricing. From the top of my head, Individual Sentiments, Forme d'Expression, and The Last Conspiracy offers amazing products, with prices being friendly (with maybe a few exceptions?) To consumers at full price and as far as i know it's not hurting their profit margins in that category.

2: This piggy back's off of point 1, if you like the designer and support the brand, buy full price (or make an effort to do so). I understand income plays a role in this (how much of a max budget you can set, how much you can save up, your ability to get multiple or 1-2 items per season, and even if you're able to afford full price or not for whatever reason). Regardless, if you wear the clothes of said designer, like what they offer ( product and price point) and don't want them to close their door, support them.

I'm sure there's more, but this is what I've notice.

[Faust]

Maybe the market is simply oversaturated. Too much fashion chasing too few customers.

[NOHSAD]

Maybe the market is simply oversaturated. Too much fashion chasing too few customers.

I've thought of this as well on and off. Fashion in general, yes, too many brands and not enough people interested.

Within the Artisinal + Avant Garde market..... I don't know. Hell, I consider myself a new consumer to the market (in buying and owning the clothes). It's gained exposure over the years sure, but apparently that exposure is not translating into profits.

[TriggerDiscipline]

lowering prices isn't as simple, as one mentioned the price of fabric, there is also this:

if you have lets say a small operation in a first world country, you have to pay your supplychain and operations, there are ways to cut costs as a bigger brand such as Julius for example they own their own factory so this cuts costs. If youre producing baller garms and having to pay a team of 20 highly skilled workers that is in the price. Just like how the hand made BBS p13 cost like double/triple the price there is a reason for that.

this thread goes hand in hand with the whole slave clothing threads and the cost of expensive fashion thread or w/e its called.

[Faust]

I've thought of this as well on and off. Fashion in general, yes, too many brands and not enough people interested.

Within the Artisinal + Avant Garde market..... I don't know. Hell, I consider myself a new consumer to the market (in buying and owning the clothes). It's gained exposure over the years sure, but apparently that exposure is not translating into profits.

I'd say the reverse. Plenty of people for Chanel and Saint-Laurent, but not enough for the artisanal stuff.

I think one major problem is the proliferation of the SZ aesthetic, which has resulted in several competing developments a) bandwagon brands b) fast fashion producing clothing along the same lines and c) brands like Helmut Lang switching gears to cater to it. These cater to the people for whom brand ethos is not important and who are in the get-the-look market. For these price is the determining factor. And you cannot compete with Helmut Lang's (meaning Theory's, meaning Uniqlo's) machinery (i.e. economies of scale/production capabilities, etc.)

[timm3h]

^ Advertising seems like it would play a big role here as well. Advertising that's essentially done word-to-mouth by people 'in the know' is bound to get crushed by the massive campaigns by Chanel, Saint Laurent, etc.

I'd imagine many artisanal designers would rather focus on making things than running a business (hence why they're artisans instead of working @ LVMH or something). But I have to wonder how much they're hurt by this comparative lack of focus on the business side of fashion.

[Pumpfish]

Two observations to add.

There is an inherent contradiction which is more acute in this niche. The conflict between fashion's seasonal novelty the greater permanence of the garments in this niche. This limits the lifetime value of a customer.

Also, engaged highly personalised service is a relatively recent option with many luxury menswear brands. This is competing for high end customers from the artisanal niche.

[zamb]

zamb, glad to see you're welcoming customer feedback and looking to improve on communication. hate to beat a dead horse but in the past communication with you was non existent. all of my emails,pms, etc went completely ignored.

So as to not clutter the discussion, my response to you can be seen here

[zamb]

Maybe the market is simply oversaturated. Too much fashion chasing too few customers.

I think the market is over saturated but not in the way we would normally think of it.

1. I think there is more than enough customizes and and increasing customer base to support healthy business by many designers in this niche. However there are too many (and yes i may get into trouble now) untalented wannabee's who have latched on to the market an stores are picking up many of these poorly designed, ill fitting products from these "designers" instead of supporting good brands who are doing quality work.

2. Designers aided by the stores, are not evolving and developing new works as fast as they can/ should.
I understand we are not fast fashion, and not working according to trends, but i think a lot of the trailing off can be attributed to a lot of the top brands are doing exactly the same styles with only slight variations, for the last 3 or so years. What incentive does a customer who has money top spend, to buy variations of the same thing from season to season when they already have enough.

I was speaking to a really great customer the other day, haven't bought anything in about a year. and he told me he has most of what he wants already, so I take that to mean that we are not evolving as we should to get a customer like him exited, so he is trying new things from other brands.


Whether we like it or not, there has gotta be an effort to attract some of the mainstream "fashion" customers, stores have recognized this and some have supplemented their offerings of artisanal brands with others who are more middle of the pack.



As others have said already, lowering price isnt as simple as it seems. it takes tons of money to run these companies, small as they are. if designers were making a killing, I highly doubt we'd see artisanal designers closing doors left right and center.

[deadboy]

Wholeheartedly agree with NOSHAD's points (too long to quote), especially on purchasing items at full price to support the designer (and hell, to support good stores too). I don't have a ton of money, but I've set a baseline of buying one big or two small-medium items at full price per season, as needed. I doubt it does much beyond self-satisfaction, but hopefully it helps signal that there is an appreciative market for good ideas and well-made clothes.

A gripe on a similarly piss-in-the-ocean scale: if American retailers are seeing a drop in purchases from Canada, it might be because our tanking dollar is making it hard to keep up with the rising prices. It's at a point now where we basically have to add 30% to the final cost. Why can't your damn economy slump again?

Maybe the market is simply oversaturated. Too much fashion chasing too few customers.

I've become so much more aware of this since I started using IG. Just remember looking through the first time and thinking, Jesus there's a lot of people trying to do this look. Not sure the customer base has grown the same way.

[Fenix]

I'll pose this question as food for thought. Who succeeds, the talented designer with no sense of business or the wannabe with solid business acumen?

[round]

I'll pose this question as food for thought. Who succeeds, the talented designer with no sense of business or the wannabe with solid business acumen?

Unfortunately, the latter, but this poses another question, what is success? It has been discussed before that success means different things to different people.. A talented designer who loves what he does but doesn't market nearly as well as others may not make the most money, but he may in the long run be happier and more content with his work. To me, loving what you do and believing in your practices is success.

I have become increasingly infuriated with these slave labor bullshit manufacturing processes. I believe a major problem is that either people don't understand that the reason that H&M can sell $10 jeans is because their employees are paid 30cents an hour, or they simply couldn't give a fuck.

[unwashed]

I'll pose this question as food for thought. Who succeeds, the talented designer with no sense of business or the wannabe with solid business acumen?

The wannabe needs the talented for "inspiration", otherwise his source and income will also run dry. So I think one cannot survive without the other. And the talented needs the wannabe's for those who like the aesthetic but want real quality, eventually the talented will have new clientele.