What are you wearing today?

[Faust]

/\ Hilarious

[docus]

.....he must have established the concept as a work term, useful to depart from in her/his studies, without questioning it any further.....

In fact Winnicott's ideas did initially arise out of clinical observation, but he certainly did question it further - he went on to extend his findings into a wide ranging meta-psychological and philosophical theory (see e.g. Playing and Reality).

Anyway, I was referring to his ideas because there seemed to be some doubt about whether 'authenticity' was a valid and/or relevant term, and I feel he makes a compelling argument for it as a central feature of human psychology, which some may find more resonant than you did.

[Mail-Moth]

^ I didn't read Winnicot, and I probably won't be able to do so in a while, so I have to ask you the silly questions those readings may have provided an answer to.

I attentively read the post you wrote before that one and I still don't understand the logic that conducts someone to believe that if his own behaviour in a given situation did upset him, then it was because he wasn't quite himself at the moment. It thus would imply that his true self would have done the right thing - or what he supposes the right thing should have been - which makes the aforementioned true self look like some sort of ideal self, no ? So, just a projection ?

Isn't this another psychological tool used by the self (not the true, 'Black Elk' one, just the 'ordinary Joe' self) to avoid direct responsability - or, to keep the conversation safe from moral considerations, to reduce the significance of what has nonetheless constituted his answer to the situation, appropriate or not ?

[semper]

^ that's very Luigi Pirandello
and I couldn't agree more.

I wasn't questioning the practical usefulness of that research, because I think it's very true that people can't discern any more where a certain habit, reflex or opinion comes from, and that it could be good to unravel the pattern of external influences on a person's psyche, but the idea that beneath that lies an blanc, honest an uninfluenced Self is something I refuse to believe.

[BeauIXI]

Man I was only make fun at you!

Ohh, hah, okay then. Sorry for getting raw with you, it's just that I've been trying to push the avoidance of universals pretty much this entire week.

Is this board even about fashion anymore?

[BECOMING-INTENSE]

Well, I think the above assertion underestimates the power of the imagination, as well as the power of honest expression in art.

And a sensing body.

Hmmm. You finally post something I can somewhat agree with,
and then you delete it. I should have known.


To have done with judgement.

[DRRRK]

Is this board even about fashion anymore?

No, it's about style.

[zamb]

No, it's about style.

agreed, and style does have an underlying philosophy........

[beardown]

Wow! Remind me to think twice before I voice my opinion about proportions on here and how they can make a fit look awkward!

If this were all about simple facades, seems like people would be glad to agree to disagree but that's not what we're seeing. The fact that this discussion has taken a philosophical turn/debate proves my point and I rest my case. It's really as simple as that as far as I'm concerned.

Style is a lot more complex than the average person would ever concede in my opinion and that was really my point. If it was as cut and dry as some want to believe, I don't think we wouldn't be having this exchange.

I get a big kick out of the 'authenticity' thing. Genevieveryoko claimed that I addressed it when I didn't so I'm wondering if this is more of a reading comprehension disconnect than an aesthetic disagreement at times. Casem first brought it up and I'd love to discuss it with either/both of you in a separate thread.

But thankfully we don't always agree. Otherwise we'd be no better than a forum that's dedicated to Nudie jeans or Ugg boots. Or does that sound pretentious?

I've spent the last 15 years making my living by trying to be creative on a daily basis. I would hope that my opinions are different from someone who adds numbers or writes computer code. And I'm not suggesting that my opinions have more merit, I'm simply stating that mine will be different from yours if you are in a non-creative field. And they may still be very different even if you are in a creative field.

Apologies for the continued digression; I'd no intentions on hijacking the WAYWT thread, I just didn't think that sharing an opinion on here would create a shitstorm, 'zombie hunt' or serious debate. Although I can't say I'm disappointed that these broader issues are being discussed. As long as people remain civil and open minded and the mods aren't bothered by it, there's nothing wrong with it.

[Fuuma]

agreed, and style does have an underlying philosophy........

1) this board is about fashion, style is the way you dress fashion is the environment in which you make stylistic choices.

2) I don't get this discussion regarding "authenticity" regarding how someone dresses; douchebags and idiots can all dress really well and great people can dress awful. Hell people who know a lot about CCP can wear it badly and dudes who entered Atelier by accident and don't give a fuck can look great. There is no inherent morality to dressing where the (fashion) just are rewarded and the unjust punished.

[BeauIXI]

^ I guess we're diving back into the "soul" argument again.

[semper]

why, of course. Who said goodlooking people are good people?

the thing is, 'authentic' is a flavour in the world of fashion, like 'natural', 'experimental', ground-breaking'. That's how I think you should value it.

[genevieveryoko]

LOL, beardown:

I hope this isn't directed at me because even though I have extolled the personal virtues of comfort and utility, I don't really post enough in WAYWT today for that to be construed from my ideals. I'm an artist who slings paint every day so I can't exactly dress up in a $2,000 outfit and do that comfortably. I believe everyone's wardrobe should reflect who they are and what they do; that's one of the aspects of clothing that separates what seems natural to me vs. what seems manufactured. Authenticity vs. artifice.

Although as a skater of 20+ years, I feel there's nothing wrong with representing that side of yourself in elements. It's much better than presenting something that's alien to your being.

That could be a wholly personal phenomenon though...when I walk out the door, I don't want to feel like I'm playing dress up. I'm not on a catwalk. I'm not on a showroom floor. I'm not trying to shock anyone or impress anyone except myself on special occasions.

People, please read every post, including your own, before engaging in a serious discussion.

[Farkhanyassin]

[Fuuma]

I look like a thick necked mongoloid in that pic, not that there is anything wrong with that.