Carol Christian Poell

[BSR]

i think the "against fashion" manifesto has been foisted onto ccp. i doubt they're this self-conscious or calculated about positioning themselves within or outside of the fashion industry. why not measure brad pitt? they're tailors after all.

AKA I seriously don't think so, the whole mainstream/downstream thing seems as a proof of the contrary, the antifashion plea (at that time at least) was not a stores' way of advertising for Poell or a 2.0 media common belief, but was supported by the man himself. I also heard that the explanation for CCP not doing women's clothes (beyond the stupid butt joke) was that it was much easier to escape from fashion diktats by designing only for men.

Maybe one can say that CCP is "postmodern" fashion in the sense that fashion has engendered its own critic with Poell. I would agree with you on the fact that at the end Poell is part of the fashion business, after all he sells clothes. But fashion is not only an industry, it's a set of socio-cultural facts that defines a historical era, and thus goes beyond the industrial aspects. From this perspective, Poell has obviously fought against some important features of what defines fashion today.

BTW I don't subscribe either to the vision of CCP as a good tailor, a craftsman, or someone making clothes just for clothes, without concepts behind. The anti-fashion aspect can be seen in the awkwardness that is essential in most of his fits. It's obvious that his obsession for technical aspects goes further than the taste for a well-done work, or artisanal "poiesis" satisfaction. These strange techniques he uses (the mad scientism) are there to create a landscape of unseen beauties, which has nothing to do with clothes as an end in itself. I would not be interested in Poell at all if it was just a technical performance, what is valuable in his work is the aesthetics he creates. Sometimes I've got the feeling that Poell is not praised for his true strength, which is not techniques in themselves, but techniques a means to a formal end.

[Faust]

that would have been my next question. Do you really think the stylist does all the job?

I don't know for sure, just speculating.

[Faust]

Joey, the man who speaks in graphics with the wisdom of a veteran who has said it all.

[Faust]

BSR, but how do you reconcile the fact that he sells at exclusive stores at exuberant prices and that the nature of his limited production only sparks consumerist desire for exclusivity?

[BSR]

BSR, but how do you reconcile the fact that he sells at exclusive stores at exuberant prices and that the nature of his limited production only sparks consumerist desire for exclusivity?

you can't fight something from outside: if you want to conquer power, you need to be an insider.
as i said, he sells clothes, and indeed he plays the fashion industry game extremely well, and of course in a way antifashion is fashion's last word, and no logo the ultimate brand.

[Venus in Furs]

BSR, but how do you reconcile the fact that he sells at exclusive stores at exuberant prices and that the nature of his limited production only sparks consumerist desire for exclusivity?

I don't think this needs to be reconciled. Realistically, what else do you expect? Expensive fabrics and limited quantities, laborious and experimental construction techniques, working out of a studio with a small number of staff as opposed to a factory; by reducing prices and selling to anyone he'd have to completely change his whole business structure. The people who really understand and appreciate Poell's work aren't buying it for some idea of consumerist exclusivity, I think this is a moot point. Not to mention, there are so many other factors to consider in terms of pricing. I've heard that Carol's retail mark up is quite high, but that's completely justifiable in my opinion. To start with, most of these 'exclusive stores' are boutiques located in some of the most expensive cities in the world, with some of the highest rent prices. Sure, they have less staff, but this is only a portion of a businesses overheads. When you're not turning over high levels of stock, you have to have high margins just to cover your weekly overheads. You also have high import duties for countries outside the EU, not to mention all expenses just to go and see the range have to be made up for - hotels, flights, food etc etc. Also, many of these shops offer free shipping anywhere in the world, I mean for a lot of these items that can be in excess of $100 depending on where it's going to. Everytime they ship an item their margin's being reduced. There's so many factors to consider with regard to pricing, I've barely scratched the surface. Pricing doesn't start and end with the designer. And I can assure you, doing 'exlusive' business like this does not make you a fortune. The real money is all in high quantity, high turnover stuff, that's the stuff you can afford to have less margin on.

BSR, I couldn't agree with you more, I really enjoyed reading your post. You managed to articulate my thoughts on Poell in a way I never could.

[AKA*NYC]

terrific post bsr. my comment should have been worded differently. i was simply suggesting that there's nothing about poell's ethos or integrity that is inconsistent with or compromised by having brad pitt in for a fitting.

[fenrost]

BTW I don't subscribe either to the vision of CCP as a good tailor, a craftsman, or someone making clothes just for clothes, without concepts behind. The anti-fashion aspect can be seen in the awkwardness that is essential in most of his fits. It's obvious that his obsession for technical aspects goes further than the taste for a well-done work, or artisanal "poiesis" satisfaction. These strange techniques he uses (the mad scientism) are there to create a landscape of unseen beauties, which has nothing to do with clothes as an end in itself. I would not be interested in Poell at all if it was just a technical performance, what is valuable in his work is the aesthetics he creates. Sometimes I've got the feeling that Poell is not praised for his true strength, which is not techniques in themselves, but techniques a means to a formal end.

This kinda stir what I have read not long ago (thanks to a very kind respected man who lend me the magazine), simply put different ppl resonate ccp differently.

it's an old article from domus, since I don't think the article is posted? will post (in someway a good closure for male 09 collection, been crazy indeed) 2 pages :





Full article hosted at mak.at

[fenrost]

on somewhat related, in the same magazine, an article about Giovanni Bonoto, whom are responsible of producing fabrics for many labels in Italy, gave him shout out..



*admins can delete if this are deemed as whoring. : \ but would like to put out there that his "anti-fashion" stance and role, an influence of fashion itself.

[DHC]

given that the specialized made-to-measure services aren't exactly their standard mode of operation, you do have to wonder what their motivations are..

Passion. They respond very kindly to a genuine appreciation for the work.

[Fade to Black]

I just remember the interview in the art magazin where he stated to have declined some rockstars (was it the stones?)who wanted to get custom tailored stuff...

Heh, it probably wasn't the Stones. Poell wouldn't turn down Mr. D I don't think and out of the 4 current Stones I can't figure out which one would have the aesthetic want for Poell's brand of bondage. Maybe Ronnie? Was more likely a lesser mortal rock n roller.

[Venus in Furs]

Nah apparently he did turn down the stones. He reportedly told them, "I don't dress aging rock stars"

[Fade to Black]

Hmm, it was probably one Stone in particular? I'd think Ronnie, Mick's a bit of a stretch but I can see it, maybe a suit. CCP's look isn't Charlie or Keith at all.

[Venus in Furs]

I'll try find the article, I remember it just said the Stones though, so I couldn't confirm who in particular

[minomni]

Passion. They respond very kindly to a genuine appreciation for the work.

don't think this is in question; as even to the casual observer the garments themselves communicate this convincingly enough. whether or not they respond kindly and the degree of this kindness is another matter. perhaps the word 'motivations' is a bit condemning, but certainly an awareness of mass exposure, commercial and otherwise, is made manifest with the bespoke armoring of a pitt. the ways in which one finds this contradictory to poell's position outlined above is contingent upon one's interpretation of 'very kindly', and 'genuine appreciation'.