Careers in Fashion

[andrew]

I've searched about trying to find a thread in case this has been addressed before but cant find one so i will post my query here as it seems like a sensible place.

I work for a designer at present and am looking at a change in my career path, possibly a small change, possibly something bigger. I was wondering if there are any members who are in industry, either as designers, cutters, production etc something in line with the creation / production side of things, who would be willing to give me their opinions.
I'm just after advise at the moment but I want to keep it on a PM basis for now rather than discuss openly as i am not too keen on the specifics been out there for everyone (ie the entire internet not other members). If anyone is willing to listen to my woes could you PM me or such and we can go from there.

thanks people.

[mssasha19130]

If you like fashion, just get a job in fashion. That is what i did 15 years ago. I have a Bachelor's in Biology and just moved to NYC in '97 to find out if it was something that I would want to do. A good 2-6 months in a good internship could tell you a lot about what area you might like.

I started with an internship at a large denim brand because a life long friend of my mother's dog walked with the brother of the company owner/designer. Yes, who you know is very important. I got lucky. I worked there for 3 months as an intern, then was hired full time. I worked 80 hours a week for many months in this first position. I made some connections, learned about large corporate design and merch and realized that I was not good at the corporate politics. I left after 9 months full time and vowed that this brand would never profit off of me again. You have to understand that Design is not typically paid for overtime, and you don't get comp days.

I will say, 15 years later I am still in the industry. I have been a Creative Director for a new line and then started my own once. I love designing and find it difficult to leave it. I hate the abuse by the big companies but the designers and other people I have met are some of my closest friends.

If you are interested in an area of design/fashion, go get a job in it. If you hate it, you have lost nothing. If you love it, you get paid to learn.

I wish you good luck. Know that you will end up where you are supposed to be if you follow what makes you happy.

[MetroBulotDodo]

I put this in a more outline form in another thread, but I'll be more specific here because it'll be more helpful that way.


I have a pretty unconventional story, and I'll mention it (again) with the hopes that it will inspire someone. I grew up in a coal mining town in rural Appalachia, dreaming of escape. After getting a scholarship to a school in NYC, I arrived in NYC as a very, very naive kid - which is, ironically, how I think I was able to make things work for me. Within the first month of getting to NYC, I decided I wanted to learn about fashion - just for the hell of it. I walked into the coolest store between my dorm and Tompkins Sq Park and told the two cool girls who were making clothes there that I would love to intern for them. *chutzpah + naiveté go hand and hand on the few rare occasions. I seemed to have a gift for pairing the two qualities and turning it into gold...or at least getting in with interesting crowds. I immediately started work cutting patterns - the two of them had started the store from the unemployment benefits of one and while they sold their own things, they also sold up-and-coming hipster talents from the E. Village. It was '94 and I remember it all very fondly. After a while, they let me sell things I made there, but the technical stuff wasn't my thing. I think the extent of my technical skills included having embroidered a pillow once at the time I offered to be their intern.

Two years later, I was graduating early and trying to figure out what to do. I was finishing a degree in physical/arch/sociocultural anthropology. I had an unusual scholarship -- it offered an international trip per year and on one of those trips, while playing cards in Prague, I found out that one of the girls I was playing cards with was an intern at Barneys -- for Simon Doonan, who was just window dressing and catalogue designing at this point. (I certainly didn't know who he was...just knew he did the "witty" windows at Barneys.) As soon as I went home, I called Barneys and asked for an interview in the buying department. Really. I went to the interview in some weird massive black hipster glasses from Selima Optique and got an internship in a department called Women's Developing Designer under Julie Gilhart, who was head women's buyer there and later became the fashion director. (She was recently removed by the new management, which is insane!) After four or five months following her to market to take photos, air-kissing Paul Smith, helping to choose black shirts from Ann D, MMM, Helmut, Marc J., CDG, Junya, etc -- I didn't quite know just how lucky I was to land there because for the most part, I had to look at collections all day long - and making excel spreadsheets so that the items would get marked up correctly (and lots of other stuff that I really didn't understand) I wondered aloud one day "how one might get a permanent job there as a buyer???" (Again, total chutzpah for a 20 year old from TN, who was totally clueless.)

Anyhow. She said she could take care of that. Just like that. I went in for a perfunctory interview and was hired. It helped, I think, that I wore weird-ish outfits that Julie was always commenting on at a time (96-97) when no one was -- I was hanging out with the skaters in Washington Sq park and reading Sassy -- and yes, I was good at mouthing off in a funny, creative way.

The point is, go in there and do what no one has the balls to do. If you don't know the right people, go the chutzpah route (In my case, I didn't know any better not to.) Be confident (but not overconfident), seem to know more about fashion than you should for someone who shouldn't have known anything about fashion -- surprise them a little. Work for free because you can because you are still in school and while you're there, do your job better than anyone else because they *do* notice, Naturally be willing to do your job without moaning. Show them that you don't need to ask questions constantly and can take care of yourself. Don't be one of those queens at the water station gossiping about who slept with who post-this or that show at the armory...

To sum it up: don't worry if you don't know the right people at first. But do your research and figure out who you *should* call. Be that one person who calls Julie Gilhart while everyone is submitting paper resumés. Project a decent measure of confidence even while secretly inside you feel like an impostor....it sounds so banal, but *look* interesting...because no one in buying wants to give a chance to someone who doesn't at least seem as if she might have some forward thinking ideas. And so on and so forth.

Incidentally, I didn't manage to get out of fashion completely. I'd sold stuff on eBay on and off to help make ends meet in addition to my stipend in grad school (ok, ok, also so I could continue to have an excuse to buy beautiful things whose seams I could study and whose designs could make my heart go pitter-patter). Through that people have asked me to do fashion consulting over the years and this year I agreed to do it on the side, but I have to keep it hush-hush because if you are a woman in the ivory tower who cares about clothing, your dedication to your work/research will be challenged at every turn. I've already started (the first piece I got my first client to buy was Ann D. Yay!) but a question for the other consultants out there...

how do you determine what you're "worth"? How do you translate your knowledge and cultural capital and who and what you know -- all the stuff that you're passing on to a client who wants to be part of that -- into a dollar value? Can you believe I've been on this project for a while and both she and I are too embarrassed to discuss compensation? (I'm really not cut out for business, honestly.) At the moment, I feel like my concept of what stuff is "worth" is skewed by the fact that I'm immersed in a world where people pay 2k for boots and as such I'm afraid I'll throw out a number that will be so ridiculously high or low it will demonstrate that I'm not quite in touch with reality...I mean, I've made up a list of my "value-added" services, end project receivables (knowledge, opinions, goals for the client moving forward) but can't quite figure out how to make a figure out of it. I'm such a dreamer - a utopian romantic - that this pragmatic stuff seems so preposterous... would love some advice myself.

Wow, that was really quick. Pfft.

mbd

p.s. oh a good measure of luck helps, too.

[MetroBulotDodo]

One more thing: you really don't need a relevant degree, I swear. If you are competent and creative, and present as a smart, ambitious kid you will have no problem getting into buying because few intro jobs require super, super specialized skills in reality. Get a liberal arts education. Learn how to write well -- that will get you far, promise. And then feel your way around.

good luck all

-mbd

[Yan]

Very interesting commentary on this thread. Thank you for sharing.

[michael_kard]

One more thing: you really don't need a relevant degree, I swear. If you are competent and creative, and present as a smart, ambitious kid you will have no problem getting into buying because few intro jobs require super, super specialized skills in reality. Get a liberal arts education. Learn how to write well -- that will get you far, promise. And then feel your way around.

good luck all

-mbd

that s very encouraging!

[Arizona]

I have a Bachelor in Industrial Engineering and Management and was or maybe still am supposed to get a Master's in the same field, but I have pretty much decided to go a different route as the program is all about taking in and computing information and not at all about making something out of it yourself. Getting a higher degree would help for getting a better job, but I have realized I don't want that kind of job since they essentially require you to be a robot and use only the left part of your brain and leave the right part to whither away.

I've already worked in clothing shops and in September I moved to Shanghai so that I could learn how to make clothes while also learning the language. I do sewing and (so far simple) patterns all by myself and that's what I'd like to do in the future too. Have my own shop and studio where people come in, try on the samples and then order a garment to be made for them. I don't want to be a slave to the seasons and I don't like the over-production of industrial clothes-making with sales and disposal of clothes.
For most parts I think I'm on the right track but the city of Shanghai is somewhat disappointing. I only recently met other people who're making clothes or learning how to and starting their brand and the scene here is a bit behind I feel. There are basically no good shops or events to meet like-minded people.
I'd like to be around people like me but I don't want to go to fashion school because I know that would kill the strong interest I have in making clothes. I like doing and learning about everything, even the little boring details and I think that's something I'd lose if I was handed a manual or was told how and what to do.
Also sometimes I start doubtin myself and would need people to talk things over with to get my energy back.

I planned on being in China for one year but I think I'll extend it to two and move to Beijing after this year's over. It's really much more cultural and a better place for me to be I think.
Following this plan I don't need to be making money until August 2012 but I will still try to make and sell things on the side.
Where I'm from I know people and could get a job within this area but I'd like to try and make it on my own first. Also I talked with people I know who have shops in Europe and they're interested in carrying my things when I feel I can make them well enough. Thankfully being in China I can afford to make less money than elsewhere.
Hopefully I can set up a shop in Beijing after school and also sell online and in shops in Europe.
If I can't do this I should be able to get a job with a crappy brand here, or preferrably with this amazing Chinese designer that I know of. Still need to do a bit of work on that one though.

I'm not entirely sure what I want from writing this post. I guess I just got inspired by other people doing things similar to what I'm doing and wanted to share.
If anybody has thoughts on my plans or could help me with leads in Shanghai/Beijing that would be well appreciated!

Well, I think I do have one question. How feasible do you think it is to expect to be able to go from zero to be able to make nice, wearable and sell-able clothes in say 18 months? I plan on learning piece by piece; making a jacket, then pants, then shirts etc. so it doesn't seem to impossible. I can already make denim jackets but I need to perfect the finish of them.

[MetroBulotDodo]

Fashun/Lyfe

I've received a good number of very nice and positive notes about the little ditty I posted earlier in this thread re: careers in fashion.

One of the biggest lessons I've had to learn in the last few years is to ask for help or advice when I really need it.

In that spirit, I am offering an ear to anyone out there who is figuring out what they want to do in life or simply wants advice. I am not suggesting that I give the best advice in the world, but I do have a little bit of experience. Perhaps I can help someone side-step trap doors along the way.

Of course, you have to ask for advice when you need it. So you are welcome to PM me.

Cheers, MBD

[Faust]

/\ How do I make girls like me?

[Arizona]

/\ How do I make girls like me?

I thought working in fashion would take care of that one.

[Faust]

/\ lol. well played, sir!

[525252]

Does anyone work in fashion- in areas not directly linked to the production of fashion design, such as photography, styling, hair, makeup?

I'm in this area, but at the very bottom, and in need of a mentor of some sort

[tornaremavencer]

This topic was very helpfull, I'm going to refresh it a bit. I'm in that funny moment in ife, straight out of high school and motivated to work in the industry. I'm quite aware of myself and my skills, I know what I can do and what i have to learn. I can sew, make basic patterns, I'm into design, but i know it's probably not the best way to enter the industry, as the creative positions are quite impossible to get, it's a reward you have to get after doing years of job in the industry.

I'm asking you for any advice. I live in Poland, but can't wait to leave this place. I speak 5 languages. I have the courage to go anywhere, I can do any job at first. I don't have thousands to spend on school, but probably can take a loan to study in England - but is it worth it? Or better prepare a CV and go straight to the industry trying to grab some work in retail and work my way up not finishing the college?

Basically I'm open, free, got some skills, determination and looking to hear some of your experience not to make the same mistakes.

[sissyleaks]

^ get an education in arts....whatever it might be...
fashion education is rather meaningless.....
what the industry wants is interesting stories, so chances are its more likely that you can get somewhere in fashion if you come from a place as far from fashion as one can imagine....the truth is, industry people have a love hate relationship with their field..and they never take fashion people seriously.. So my point being, get a solid foundation and do your sewing on the side- craft your philosophy and ideas..... let things take their time...

if youre really interested in design...work with a craftsman as a hobby....this is usually the case with most relevant designers... craftspeople like tailors etc will teach you more than what schools will...and might even pay you on the side if youve got a knack for it.

[Faust]

He needs to know how to make the clothes though. Nothing can replace a good pattern making teacher.

Furthermore, there is no shortage of designers out there, most creative among them, who graduated from a fashion school, or dropped out of one because they made their connections there.