even the paper doll looks sad having to wear that.
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Raf Simons
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Originally posted by 525252 View PostIt can't be denied that Raf Simons is different, but it can (and will) be denied that he's undergone "downfall".
Honestly, I think Raf's current collections have more relevance to social values rather than cultural.
Raf's old website
F/W 01.02
S/S 02 more pics
F/W 02.03
S/S 03
F/W 03.04 more pics video
S/S 04
F/W 04.05 video
S/S 05 more pics
F/W 05
S/S 06
F/W 06
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Thanks, slalom! A worthy addition to this thread.Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde
StyleZeitgeist Magazine
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Originally posted by slalom View PostWe're entitled to our opinions, but you can't make statements like these without knowing the history of his work. Take a look at his curriculum and then make your argument.
I've seen his older collections and read about them and so on. I've looked through this entire thread.
I just don't think I'll ever get a substantial understanding of them, let alone have enough of that to make a critical conclusion because I feel I don't know enough about the context which all his "statements" were made. At the time of those older works I was/am much too culturally detached from that area to gain any sort of appreciation for it. This is what I meant by the "social relevance" of his work.
I think the ideas are now more universal. (thats a statement I'm slightly apprehensive to make. But nonetheless..) With the snakes, they are an archetypal symbol and their "meaning" is sensed even instinctively. Ideas of masculinity is also something that is explored universally. I don't think its "dumbing down" or communication to the lowest common denominator, they're just ideas that are relevant to everyone.
But that list is really great, and I'll definitely be looking through them!!
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/\ Thanks for bringing this blog posts in.
This explanation by Raf is such bullshit though:
"“I don’t like the way they [the recent collections] are being dismissed as “commercial” or that I am consciously designing for “old men.” What’s wrong with including older people as well?... I don’t like to think that an audience feels as if I am abandoning them. I am not: these formal elements have always been in my work, always. I wish people would really look into the history. Also to dress like this when you are young – and I am showing these clothes on young guys – for me feels more subversive now.”
It's not about age, it's about the state of mind. It can be argued that Yohji designs for "old people" too, but his stuff is far from conventional, which is what Raf's stuff has become . And to give this postmodern hipster excuse, "Oh, it's subversive when I do it," is such a cop-out. I suppose Franz Ferdinand and its ilk are SOOO subversive!!!
It is true that formal elements were always there, but they were not overwhelming. The entire point is that those suit jackets and coats were incorporated into a young man's wardrobe of bombers and knits - which is exactly what made them subversive - they weren't the whole thing thinly veiled by some superfluous design elements.
It's fine to say, "I have grown up." But growing up does not mean that you automatically start wearing a suit. That is so FUCKING DEPRESSING. Rick is a grown up, Ann is a grown up, but they have retained their own sense of what a man's wardrobe can look like, an alternative to the conventionality of menswear.Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde
StyleZeitgeist Magazine
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This is taken from that Hapsical blog post:
"The irony, of course, is that we all got in a fuss about Simons apparently abandoning his ‘edgy’ ‘alternative’ look, but that look is now so heavily ingrained in the mainstream thanks to his great influence on menswear (look no further than Topman for evidence), that putting his young men in something traditional and conservative (especially, we might note, at the height of the banking crisis), that goes right against what we currently accept as being ‘cool’, was really just another clever way of breaking away from the mainstream and doing something subversive, albeit in a way that was harder to recognise than before."
"Oh, it's subversive when I do it,"
I don't know if you've seen what the "conventionality of menswear" looks like recently, (being so isolated in your own very well dressed world, you!) but "bombers and knits" are quite a large part of it. Its ironic, but thats the way the trickle-down works. Its also probably a large part of why some (a very very small portion) of his earlier work doesn't resonate with me, because it instantly reminds me of the mass produced crap I was familiar with, which he ironically influenced. So fashion is kinda funny like that. Fashion is superfluous. A utilitarian world doesn't need fashon.
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Originally posted by 525252 View Post
1. But basically what you are saying is "oh, its subversive and not superfluous when I think its subversive and not superfluous"
2. I don't know if you've seen what the "conventionality of menswear" looks like recently, (being so isolated in your own very well dressed world, you!) but "bombers and knits" are quite a large part of it. Its ironic, but thats the way the trickle-down works. Its also probably a large part of why some (a very very small portion) of his earlier work doesn't resonate with me, because it instantly reminds me of the mass produced crap I was familiar with, which he ironically influenced. So fashion is kinda funny like that.
3. Fashion is superfluous. A utilitarian world doesn't need fashon.
2. LOL. I have lived in New York for the past 18 years. I have seen the styles and neighborhoods change with my own eyes.
3. Thank you for this profound insight. Who knew?!Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde
StyleZeitgeist Magazine
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arrgh I just wrote up a reply and then the browser just screwed up. I can't be bothered to rewrite everything but to sum it all up:
1 If you met the guy, you most likely would not be screaming "bullshit" at his face. You would most likely have a nice long discussion about why he did what, you'd probably get along quite nicely and when its time to leave you'd probably give him a hug and you'd be good friends foreverrrrr.
2 I didn't point out how young and naive I am with the intent to invalidate every thing I say, but to show that I'm coming from a very different perspective. I ended up looking like a precocious brat so I don't think anything I say will have much of an impact on this discussion. I'll leave you to pine about how Raf isn't the same anymore.
3 and Faust, I already could tell that you have experience and you're from a place like NY but frankly, it doesn't really matter.
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Originally posted by 525252 View Post1 If you met the guy, you most likely would not be screaming "bullshit" at his face. You would most likely have a nice long discussion about why he did what, you'd probably get along quite nicely and when its time to leave you'd probably give him a hug and you'd be good friends foreverrrrr.
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Originally posted by 525252 View Post1 If you met the guy, you most likely would not be screaming "bullshit" at his face. You would most likely have a nice long discussion about why he did what, you'd probably get along quite nicely and when its time to leave you'd probably give him a hug and you'd be good friends foreverrrrr.
Anyway, no hard feelings - but understand, the moment you say "that's just your opinion," you are effectively closing the door on any discussion. Yes, it may be my opinion, but it's an informed one.Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde
StyleZeitgeist Magazine
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