Misomber Nuan SS10

[kunk75]

New designer pricing makes xxx seem like a bargain

[Faust]

someone will buy it.

[gaitortrout]

Fashion is destroying the middle class.

[Faust]

No, Republicans are.

[zamb]

New designer pricing makes xxx seem like a bargain

I dont think that you have any idea of what are the challenges that face new smaller designers to produce items for a collection.

Designers like Carol are established designers with a certain amount of leverage that new designers dont have.
Unless you plan on losing money for several years before (potentially, and hopefully) seeing a profit, smaller companies dont have much of a choice than making the prices high,

I am able to keep my prices respectable because of the kind of Studio setup that I have, and because the breadth of knowledge I have compensates for things I would have to pay an enormous amount of money to get done, like pattern making, grading etc..........
I was speaking to a fellow designer last week and his grading bill alone each season is in the thousands!

My production is done in house right now, I am working for less than minimum wage when you count the amount of hours per day that I work, from 7-8 am in the morning to about 2am the next day........I have to mentally push myself away if i want to go to bed at midnight,
now have two employees and they make more money than I do!

But on the flip side, I can easily see how some designers have no choice as they dont produce in house................

Let me give you an easy example.

I spoke to a contractor a few weeks ago about producing a particular piece. He said his minimum for production is fifty pieces per style.........not really a lot, but how many new designers get seasonal orders that justifies producing 50 pieces of a particular style?

If you only have thirty pieces, then you have to pay sample making prices, which is about 3-4 times higher than the production price.

if it cost a designer $150 to make a pant sample, which many contractors do, or even more, then another $30-60 dollars for the fabric, then you are talking about approximately $200, which does not include, the patterns, grading for sizes etc...........

this is just cost, it doesn't involve the markups for wholesale. every designers wholesale is calculated differently, so I cant comment on that, but lets say wholesale foe a pant is $350-400.....

depending on where the item is sold/ purchased, one can easily see this item going for between $900- 1200.

As business grows, some designers are able to bring their prices down, because production becomes cheaper, some dont because there is no point to do it after a certain price point is established, as it can become damaging to the brand to do so..............Also because more profits will also allow the designers to expand into new product categories, buy better fabrics and supplies etc.........

Its not an easy thing, but trust me, we dont jack up prices just to make you broke

[1.618]

Well said Zam. Also let's not forget incidental costs during a season/collection for a designer such as marketing and branding which includes the production of a website, lookbooks, photography etc. These are expenses that new designers bear at the start. A new designer, must be prepared to make a loss in the early years, if they wish to be there in the long-run!

[zamb]

Well said Zam. Also let's not forget incidental costs during a season/collection for a designer such as marketing and branding which includes the production of a website, lookbooks, photography etc. These are expenses that new designers bear at the start. A new designer, must be prepared to make a loss in the early years, if they wish to be there in the long-run!

Agreed, to an extent,
I think that one should go into business with the intent to lose as little money as possible at the outset. often times I've seen new designers doing too much too quickly, and trying to get too visible too fast. The problem then becomes how much money can one spend before seeing at least a break even point, let alone profitability. many businesses end up failing before getting to that point, when a slower pace and a more pragmatic approach would have allowed for greater longevity

For me, I certainly could not have been in business if I didn't have the level of knowledge I have, God knows where they money would come from for sample makers, pattern-makers etc, if I couldn't do those things.
now I cannot do everything that is needed because there is so much to do.
Of many of my friends that I know I have one of if not the most efficient and well equipped studio. t took me a while to gather all the equipment and get everything working, but it was a sacrifice that was more than worth it.
this was important for me because of the way I work. it has allowed me to operate in a completely different way than many other independent designers. I would go broke in the first few weeks of a single season if I had to pay to get Patterns and samples made by a contractor.

I'm gonna stop here though, as we have already made this thread into something it wasn't intended for.........

[kunk75]

yes, zamb, i have friends in the biz and appreciate the costs/labor involved but i also can't help but feel there are also people out there who bandwagon an aesthetic and try to exploit the consumer financially. not even talking about the subject of this thread per se but i am sure it happens.

[zamb]

yes, zamb, i have friends in the biz and appreciate the costs/labor involved but i also can't help but feel there are also people out there who bandwagon an aesthetic and try to exploit the consumer financially. not even talking about the subject of this thread per se but i am sure it happens.

if I were to piece your statements together, I would get the impression that you are suggesting that this designer is band wagoning (?) an aesthetic, but i dont wanna put words in your mouth. I know you work in the creative fields, so i know you cand understand and appreciate the logistics of producing a products and getting it to market.

I dont have an opinion about this line, I looked at the website briefly, and as I always say, I give a designer about three or so seasons before I formulate a perspective. I think it takes at least that amount of time for one to gather enough information, and to have enough experience to find out what works and what doesn't, to go through the necessary creative chaos needed to refine an aesthetic, and to move away from the Choir/ band into beocming a Solo Artist with some kind of original voice.

what I am gonna say though is that, for Campbell/ Darklands to pick up the line that says something about it. While Darklands is indeed a business and has to make business decisions, it seems Campbell would not decide to support a line that doesn't meet a certain standard. so if he does decide to carry it, then..............there is something in it. I trust his judgment like that.

Also, the die hards and the wagonist still have to pay the same business expenses. suppliers dont say, we will give you materials for free because we realize you are an original.
It is people like you who should make it harder for the wagonists to succeed, just let their clothes stay on the selling floor............

[Darklands]

prices

I think it is ok, although inspired of a lot of other stuff out there. Not saying it is copies, but it's not really something out of it's own world either. I can't clearly see a vision from the buy, so would like to see the whole collection.

What I have a problem with is the prices. A up and coming designer I had not heard anything about before is asking 1568 Euro for basically a piece of raw hide that have ben cut some, and added sleeves to then washed.

some of the prices do creep up there, ever a problem for new designers as they are producing in small numbers.

the piece you point out however, is likely the best priced piece that we bought. that jkt requires three times the leather of a normal leather jkt and everything from the fit, to the detailing to the japanese fabric . . . . is impressive.

ultimately, the consumer votes with their wallet about what is too expensive and what is not - i am pretty damn sure i know which direction that will fall with this piece.

[Faust]

some of the prices do creep up there, ever a problem for new designers as they are producing in small numbers.

the piece you point out however, is likely the best priced piece that we bought. that jkt requires three times the leather of a normal leather jkt and everything from the fit, to the detailing to the japanese fabric . . . . is impressive.

ultimately, the consumer votes with their wallet about what is too expensive and what is not - i am pretty damn sure i know which direction that will fall with this piece.

Exactly. These pricing discussions are getting quite tiring. No one is twisting anyone's hand into buying anything.

[Darklands]

well said Zamb. it is important message to get out there to enble posters to understand the challenges all designers face re pricing, but particularly up-and-coming designers.

from our perspective, i look at likely two hundred brands for every one that we add. that in it's own right does not make it important, but it does mean that I believe in it.

[zamb]

Thanks,
I always like to give insights into the challenges we face, and I respect people like you who give support to smaller companies and allow them the opportunity to grow.

well said Zamb. it is important message to get out there to enble posters to understand the challenges all designers face re pricing, but particularly up-and-coming designers.

from our perspective, I look at likely two hundred brands for every one that we add. that in it's own right does not make it important, but it does mean that I believe in it.

this part of your statement is mind boggling though, is it that you get press kits/ look books from 200 designers of you see that many with an aesthetic/quality that is of interest to you.
I always thought that we are in a smaller niche market..............
two hundred in my mind doesn't seem so niche!

[Darklands]

this may be getting off the topic of this thread, but not everything i look at first hand ends up falling into the niche or aesthetic of our direction. strangely, many designers want me to come see what we they do, even when it should be clear to them what is often immediately clear to me . . . that we are not of the same aesthetic. but then to be fair i suppose, very few shops are so . . . singular in their aesthetic and mood.

[Yan]

Well put Zamb. I totally understand the pricing questions but it is conceivable that even at these prices, the designers are making a loss, when you factor in work space, production, staff etc. From a London perspective, that is why so many talented designers do not make it. Unless you are very smart it is nigh on impossible to make a living from fashion, without a beneficiary or business partners.