Important

[Faust]

you have a point, sam_tem. however, they are a part of european union and the global economy. this is no time for exceptionalism.

[AKA*NYC]

Great news for 2010 clothing prices.

http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/12/11/the-economic-consequences-of-herr-steinbrueck/

Germany's economic minister (or something of that sort) refuses to take any kind of fiscal rescue steps. Germany is 1/5th of the EU economy. Remember the days of the $0.80 euro, yeah, they're coming back!

dollar =

[ddohnggo]

people are getting laid off at my company. ouch.

[AKA*NYC]

people are getting laid off at my company. ouch.

ugh oh. stay off sz for a few days. look busy and let the storm pass by.

[D_S]

Important?

[theetruscan]

i like how everyone is hating on germany right now when in actuality germany is the one that has the right to hate on the others and i suppose this is their method for doing that. of course germany is hurting itself, but they are much more well positioned to take some pain.

i guess there's so many factors at play that we can't simply say that germany has the right to do what it wants since it has been the one that is fiscally responsible, but it should be up to the others to prove that these efforts will help the common person today without inflicting future generations and they clearly haven't done that yet.

I don't think this is right. Yes, Germany has been more successful and more responsible economically than the rest of Europe. Yes, they're in a stronger position. But, they're seeing (if I'm not mistaken) the same massive declines (and they have the largest intra-European exports of anyone, so even if their domestic economy did ok, their overall economy would get reamed by dropping demand elsewhere) as everyone else, and their Neo-Hooverism isn't something that they can do because they will weather the storm but others will suffer, it's head in the sand "nope, no problem, we're fine" nonsense that's going to hammer their economy along with everyone else's because they don't want to be team players. Obviously it hurts that they were in better shape and will need to take action they're forced into, but saying "nuh-uh, this isn't our fault" as you fall off a fucking cliff is stupid.

I'm not arguing that they don't have the right to do whatever they want. We (as Americans) elected people who decided they should give 700 billion to businesses who can't explain their losses, and we didn't bother to appoint anyone to the oversight position until >350 Billion were gone (And when we did a certain Republican Senator put a hold on the appointment for 3 weeks to make sure all the money got out, and no Democrat or Republican had the balls to say "that's bullshit, let's override his hold). In parallel, we, as Americans, are deciding that we'd rather lose 1-3 million manufactuing jobs than let Unions, and by extension workers, have some representation and bargaining rights. We're dumb as shit, it's just sad when you see some other country full of morons elected some incompetent lunatic idealogue dipshit to a position where he gets to ream them because he's thinking with his crackpipe.

Regardless, I look forward to the price drop in European clothing. I could do with the days when $500 shoes were considered expensive.

EDIT: Reading this I should probably mention that I'm super stressed out and actually nastier than usual. I stand by my claims, but maybe I shoulda used fewer expletives.

[Chinorlz]

I don't think this is right. Yes, Germany has been more successful and more responsible economically than the rest of Europe. Yes, they're in a stronger position. But, they're seeing (if I'm not mistaken) the same massive declines (and they have the largest intra-European exports of anyone, so even if their domestic economy did ok, their overall economy would get reamed by dropping demand elsewhere) as everyone else, and their Neo-Hooverism isn't something that they can do because they will weather the storm but others will suffer, it's head in the sand "nope, no problem, we're fine" nonsense that's going to hammer their economy along with everyone else's because they don't want to be team players. Obviously it hurts that they were in better shape and will need to take action they're forced into, but saying "nuh-uh, this isn't our fault" as you fall off a fucking cliff is stupid.

I'm not arguing that they don't have the right to do whatever they want. We (as Americans) elected people who decided they should give 700 billion to businesses who can't explain their losses, and we didn't bother to appoint anyone to the oversight position until >350 Billion were gone (And when we did a certain Republican Senator put a hold on the appointment for 3 weeks to make sure all the money got out, and no Democrat or Republican had the balls to say "that's bullshit, let's override his hold). In parallel, we, as Americans, are deciding that we'd rather lose 1-3 million manufactuing jobs than let Unions, and by extension workers, have some representation and bargaining rights. We're dumb as shit, it's just sad when you see some other country full of morons elected some incompetent lunatic idealogue dipshit to a position where he gets to ream them because he's thinking with his crackpipe.

Regardless, I look forward to the price drop in European clothing. I could do with the days when $500 shoes were considered expensive.

holy crap!

as long as the potential take-home message is that we can now go to KH and buy shit on a dollar-euro-conversion-based perpetual sale then WORD.

All I hear on the daily now on NPR is business after business, bank after bank, country after country getting into trouble... a serious downer to say the least. It's always nice to pop onto SZ for a good laugh or at least something totally unrelated to the hell that is going on right now.

[Faust]

NPR is a serious downer in itself. Why do they need to talk as if they are on sedatives. I know they think it makes them appear intelligent, but it's the fucking radio, come on. I can't stomach it.

[maldoror]

fucking hurricane outside

[AKA*NYC]

[Casius]

That is amazing....and depressing...

[YoungM]

I don't know whether to laugh or cry when I see the above picture.

Oh, my poor libertarian heart.

[Avyer]

God, I laughed my ass off at the picture. Our auto industry is a joke.

[theetruscan]

I don't know whether to laugh or cry when I see the above picture.

Oh, my poor libertarian heart.

Laugh, because they're probably going to go belly up, so you'll get your libertarian happysauce. Cry, because if we listen to libertarians right now, we'll have a new great depression.

[YoungM]

Laugh, because they're probably going to go belly up, so you'll get your libertarian happysauce. Cry, because if we listen to libertarians right now, we'll have a new great depression.

My libertarian-ness has no desire for them to go belly up. I'd rather they become smart- which, odds are, at least one of them would.

As for crying- I won't argue that libertarian policy would have done anything to stop this economic meltdown, but I don't think it would have made it worse. Our fancy government intervention hasn't gotten us anything but another trillion in debt.

In the 2008 fiscal year, the government spent 412 billion on interest. Thats almost seven times the amount spent on education. Brilliant?

Also, apologies if I'm taking this thread in a painful direction. Feel free to shut me up.