BEER (the wonderful world of) + dead friends

[udbrud]

Speaking about my homecountry (Italy): I think that compared to wines' prices, artisanal beers are getting too expensive...

When you go out, you I could drink a good (I mean, really good, even not a super-tuscany or a champagne) bottle of red wine (think of a barbera) for Euro 15/18: you pay the peasant, the winemaker, the vineyard, the aging, barrels, the land, the hill exposure and so on... and could have enough wine for 2 person, eating out.

When we go out eating and decide to drink artisanal beers, we need at least 2 beers for person and that counts for a minimum of Euro 20, which pays the brewmaster, the hops (not the most expensive plant in the world) and -if you drink acid beer- some bacterias. No land or exposure problems, no weather problems, no expensive winemakers.
And 5 Euros/pint is for italian ale beer: if you choose some ipa/ale import from USA/UK, price'll grow. With acid beers, prepare to go higher.

ps: I understand that horrendous and commercial pi$$-like beer or chemical drinks like redbull costs quite as much as artisanal ales, but you have to pay the pit-stop, the villas, etc...

So, if wine's the benchmark, I would say that:
- redbull is madly overpriced
- industrial beers are terribly overpriced
- artisanal beers are overpriced

How's the situation in your country?

I think you're only partially correct. I can't exactly speak for Italian prices as a whole, but the times I've gone to Italy, prices have honestly been very comparable between wine and beer as a good bottle of artisanal wine (which would be the comparable equivalent, as most craft brews are after all made in fairly small batches and not at great factory scale), I experienced, often cost more in the range of €18-30, which would yield about 4 glasses - by comparison a couple of glasses of good beer would often end up at between €10-20 depending on style and import - so although potentially a little more expensive it wasn't overwhelming.
Somewhat the same thing can be applied for the prices here in Copenhagen ... but, at least if you're into artisanal natural wines, it's quite easy to end up with wines that are far more expensive than the equivalent price of good beer (it's fairly common to pay around €10 for a glass of "entry-level" natural wine). Of course the reverse can also be said if you go for the rarest, most sought-after beers.

Apart from the division of what you're paying for isn't quite true especially not in the case of sour beers like lambic. With especially craft beers, you of course pay the brewery (in the case of gypsy brewers you pay for said brewer to rent a space at another brewery), brewer&staff, but as for hops, malt and grains, most craft brewers utilize several different kinds of hops and malts sourced from many different places in the world, which are influenced by weather (just as grapevines would be) and also many other ingredients like rare coffees, fruits etc etc for the more advanced styles. Apart from that there's the many different beers which are barrel aged, just as wines would be, on different barrels all of which have to be bought and stored for longer periods of time - this is especially true for lambic, geuze and other sour styles which are often aged for several years.
Apart from that, sour styles using yeast types like brettanomyces, lambicus and so forth are actually some of the most difficult beer types as these bacteria take their toll on the equipment and make the same equipment basically useless for other beer types.

Of course, as with most niche markets (as we're probably more than used to, noting the designers represented on this board) you also end up paying a bunch for the perceived value and brand of said producer in many cases. The validity of that can be discussed to death, but that happens to be the reality of it. I personally think the amount allocated for this is acceptable in most cases though.

On a completely different note; I've been trying to finally teach myself to like saisons, but I have a very hard time with the dry funkiness of most every single saison I've tried the past couple of years. I tried the Praire Artisan Ales "Puncheon" and "Birra" both of which were definitely some of the best, I've tried of the style, especially the sour notes of Puncheon saved it from the blandness of many others. Any recommendations as for sour saisons?
By the same brewery (in collaboration with Mikkeller) the "American Style" APA with brett is very recommendable, I've been drinking that bunch of times ... it especially goes very well with Mexican food.
Tonight I'll be giving the Crooked Stave "Nightmare on Brett" sour red ale a go - should be good!

[jap808]

>it's fairly common to pay around €10 for a glass of "entry-level" natural wine
d-a-a-a-a-a-m-n: with €10 I get a glass of DomP in a really cool wine-bar (altought not in Milan's fashion-streets :-)
I understand the point about lambic & brettas & rare coffess and share your thought, altought I joke myself about Tuscan's land prices' that aren't comparable to bacterias' prices

ps about bretta: my friends are completly mad about "september" by Guillon (little brewery based in Barcelona), a bretta acid-beer with a fantastic hoppines... Thanks for the tip about Praire Artisan Ales "American Style" w/bretta: will look for it!
Can't help about saison: can't teach myself about this style...

Prost!

[mikemikemike]

a sour i would highly recommend (if available) is lolita from goose island near chicago. technically a wild ale but i think its great.

[MadMarc]

Nothing comes close:

[antabaka]

these are my favourite beers in vancouver:

http://www.beeradvocate.com/beer/profile/18858/62911/

http://brassneck.ca/

[MJRH]

good choices, both. have you given dageraad a go, yet? my favourite bc brewery, but then, my palate's always tended toward belgium.

[malaesthetique]

Drinkin a mikkeler black 17% imperial stout. Draft. Soooooo good.

[Nickefuge]

Nothing comes close:

Yes! But also:

[eleves]

Tried another Evil Twin brew called "Christmas Eve At A New York City Hotel Room". It was so good, the name alone puts you in a certain place and the notes of chocolate, fruit, tobacco, leather, oak and whatever other goodness is in there really hits the spot

[Ahimsa]

I recently went to Japanese restaurant near me that serves Belgian Japanese (brewed in Belgium) beer called Kagua. I got the blanc with yuzu citrus. It was quite refreshing and very unique.

[eleves]

I recently went to Japanese restaurant near me that serves Belgian Japanese (brewed in Belgium) beer called Kagua. I got the blanc with yuzu citrus. It was quite refreshing and very unique.

Looks delicious and yuzu is my favorite flavor! May I ask what restaurant this was?

[Ahimsa]

^I got it at Gen in Prospect Heights.

Though if you come to the area you might as well stop at Prospect Heights Beer Works or just get ramen at the restaurant bar Chuko (it's a really good ramen place)

[eleves]

^I got it at Gen in Prospect Heights.

Though if you come to the area you might as well stop at Prospect Heights Beer Works or just get ramen at the restaurant bar Chuko (it's a really good ramen place)

Thanks for tips! I love trying new Japanese restaurants and new beer haha. I'm definitely a stout drinker but a yuzu beer sounds too good to pass up. I'm always on a ramen quest as well and I've never even heard of Chuko!

[Faust]

^I got it at Gen in Prospect Heights.

Though if you come to the area you might as well stop at Prospect Heights Beer Works or just get ramen at the restaurant bar Chuko (it's a really good ramen place)

Well, I know where we are having the next brunch!

[eleves]

For those who didn't know, the elusive Kentucky Breakfast Stout rears its head this Wednesday! Keep an eye out!