technology

[BSR]

This is so naive, honestly. What successful businessman did not make his way to the top by being a cunning bastard? That's how business works 99.9% of the time.

another reason why we can spare ourselves biopics devoted to business "geniuses"

[TheDivinitus]

another reason why we can spare ourselves biopics devoted to business "geniuses"

Right, because the only documentaries worth making or seeing should be about good elves and unicorns.

[MJRH]

Actually, it's most of the stuff you see written about Jobs that reads like high fantasy. This includes drivel like "let's create a narrative juxtaposing his Machiavellian business acumen with his creative genius, there now it's fair and balanced."

Not that the biopic is necessarily bad, but the odds of it being anything other than balls are pretty poor.

(edited for clarity)

[TheDivinitus]

I just don't know why the biopic genre was even brought into this discussion. "Steve Jobs: The Man in the Machine" is not a biopic. It is a documentary comprised entirely of archival footage and interviews and not a movie interpretation starring Ashton Kutcher.

[En.]

This is so naive, honestly. What successful businessman did not make his way to the top by being a cunning bastard? That's how business works 99.9% of the time.

You're right, I wasn't denying that, but Jobs is obviously dead now. Glorifying him as a single "genius" that brought Apple to its current position is just nonsense.

En., your issues with Jobs are not glossed over in the new documentary. Job's darker side of doing business, from day 1 through the end, is definitely given plenty of run-time.

That's a plus.

[BSR]

Right, because the only documentaries worth making or seeing should be about good elves and unicorns.

ok i should have been a bit more explicit. it is not so much the choice of the topic per se that matters, but the angle. I'm ok to watch a doc on pol pot, provided it's not gonna be about a guy who was a true genius but also some failures or dark sides. basically any doc focusing on the "personality" rather than the facts disgusts me but that's a personal taste i suppose.

I just don't know why the biopic genre was even brought into this discussion. "Steve Jobs: The Man in the Machine" is not a biopic. It is a documentary comprised entirely of archival footage and interviews and not a movie interpretation starring Ashton Kutcher.

"A biographical film, or biopic is a film that dramatizes the life of an actual person or people." says wikipedia. hmmm... guess what? i don't see how and why a film "comprised entirely of archival footage and interviews" would not deliver an "interpretation" of the reality it showcases. and btw the clear line between fiction movie and documentary is challenged in many ways.

I am in the difficult position to talk about a movie that i haven't seen... but I saw the trailer and it is highly dramatic and I'd bet that emphasizing the dark sides of Jobs' character will add a lot of "faustian" (in the Goethe sense, not SZ ;)) romanticism to his "legend".

[Faust]

Well, comparing Jobs to Pol Pot, hmmm.

The importance of Jobs is that he was the first global business executive that saw the importance of design, which is the unification of form and function, which is the unification of science and art, with technology being the pathway, which is the solution of a deeply rooted philosophical problem in the Western society where art and science were separated beginning with the Renaissance (though Pirsig puts it much further in history, with the Greeks), creating an incredible amount of technological ugliness, from consumer products to architecture, that has done a disservice to our society.

I am sure he has seen what Braun has done, and Bang and Olufsen on a lesser scale. And I am sure he must have read John Ruskin and Robert Pirsig.

That is why I couldn't care less if he was a conniving despot - everyone in business is. Better him than some fucking airline CEO.

[Arkady]

While we're on the topic, has anyone seen the spectacular We Live in Public about Josh Harris, the creator of the first online video network? Particularly a fan of his underground bunker installation wired for surveillance -- featuring interrogation artist and shooting range.

[TheDivinitus]

While we're on the topic, has anyone seen the spectacular We Live in Public about Josh Harris, the creator of the first online video network? Particularly a fan of his underground bunker installation wired for surveillance -- featuring interrogation artist and shooting range.

Yes, it was done by my colleague Ondi Timoner. I have seen it and presented east coast premiere several years ago.

[Arkady]

Yes, it was done by my colleague Ondi Timoner. I have seen it and presented east coast premiere several years ago.

That's stellar you work with Ondi -- it's by far one of my favorite documentaries.

[TheDivinitus]

That's stellar you work with Ondi -- it's by far one of my favorite documentaries.

Very happy to hear that.
Especially when battling gender inequality in film.

[Globi]

....
The importance of Jobs is that he was the first global business executive that saw the importance of designCEO.

Well, i think several car companies or maybe IKEA realized this before Jobs.

[Faust]

Well, i think several car companies or maybe IKEA realized this before Jobs.

IKEA? We obviously have different ideas of what constitute good design. IKEA is exactly the prime example of the philosophical problem I describe above.

Car companies, maybe BMW comes close, but still falls short of what I have in mind and what Jobs has been able to achieve with Apple.

[mrbeuys]

Well, i think several car companies or maybe IKEA realized this before Jobs.

And like Faust said or alluded to, Apple really is Braun on steroids. Jonny Ive couldn't do his work without Dieter Rams.

And obviously we can follow that back to the Bauhaus, etc etc. and The Great Exhibition in 1851. Or further, but that will get silly.

Doesn't lessen Jobs' contribution to many aspects of today's culture.

[Nickefuge]

Car companies, maybe BMW comes close

I wish I could find the outtake from Objectified where this BMW designer says the fold-out car key is the biggest innovation in transportation design in the last few years. Unfortunately, I can´t find it. It´s a nice documentary nonetheless.