technology

[BSR]

the solution of a deeply rooted philosophical problem in the Western society where art and science were separated beginning with the Renaissance (though Pirsig puts it much further in history, with the Greeks)

is that idea that science and art are separated during the Renaissance (or even before) from Pirsig? i'm geniunely curious because this is the first time I read something like this (the "Renaissance man" is generally defined as someone who is both an artist and a scientist).

[Faust]

is that idea that science and art are separated during the Renaissance (or even before) from Pirsig? i'm geniunely curious because this is the first time I read something like this (the "Renaissance man" is generally defined as someone who is both an artist and a scientist).

Pirsig's idea is that it goes back to the struggle between the Sophists and Socrates. Socrates won, we lost. I cannot see it going this far.

I want to clarify that I think the seeds of this separation were beginning in the Renaissance but really picked up speed when science made huge strides and parallel to that philosophers began to talk about the Enlightenment.

[TheDivinitus]

ok i should have been a bit more explicit. it is not so much the choice of the topic per se that matters, but the angle. I'm ok to watch a doc on pol pot, provided it's not gonna be about a guy who was a true genius but also some failures or dark sides. basically any doc focusing on the "personality" rather than the facts disgusts me but that's a personal taste i suppose.

"A biographical film, or biopic is a film that dramatizes the life of an actual person or people." says wikipedia. hmmm... guess what? i don't see how and why a film "comprised entirely of archival footage and interviews" would not deliver an "interpretation" of the reality it showcases. and btw the clear line between fiction movie and documentary is challenged in many ways.

I am in the difficult position to talk about a movie that i haven't seen... but I saw the trailer and it is highly dramatic and I'd bet that emphasizing the dark sides of Jobs' character will add a lot of "faustian" (in the Goethe sense, not SZ ;)) romanticism to his "legend".

Looking at your comments it seems you have a personal bias against non-fiction films about multidimensional human beings. To look into the story of a specific person or a business requires a light be shown on those behind the scenes.

This film’s director, Alex Gibney, has a reputation for honest storytelling through the documentary medium. I will repeat my earlier reponse: "your potential issues are not glossed over in the new documentary. Job's darker side of doing business, from day 1 through the end, is definitely given plenty of run-time."

Perhaps if you were familiar with Alex Gibney's work and could tell the difference between narrative and documentary cinema (a “biopic" is not a documentary) we could have an informed discussion.

[BSR]

Looking at your comments it seems you have a personal bias against non-fiction films about multidimensional human beings. To look into the story of a specific person or a business requires a light be shown on those behind the scenes.

This film’s director, Alex Gibney, has a reputation for honest storytelling through the documentary medium. I will repeat my earlier reponse: "your potential issues are not glossed over in the new documentary. Job's darker side of doing business, from day 1 through the end, is definitely given plenty of run-time."

Perhaps if you were familiar with Alex Gibney's work and could tell the difference between narrative and documentary cinema (a “biopic" is not a documentary) we could have an informed discussion.

No i don't have a "personal bias", I am just a bit more demanding than you are maybe. For instance I don't think that the expression "multidimensional human beings" has any moral meaning (or any meaning at all) to be honest. It is either a trivial thing to say (all humans are multidimensional), or it is a poor excuse for bad behavior ("he is not a bad person, he just happens to be multidimensional").
Also, regarding film genres I am sorry to say that you will not teach anyone something really deep by using the fiction vs non fiction rather obvious distinction. My point was simply (I guess it is at the level of a first year course in any cinema school, no?) that many rules of fiction storytelling (think about the basic aristotelian principles in the Poetics) apply to non fiction works (essays or documentaries). Even when you use archives you tell a story, aren't you?
And I don't even mention the huge tradition of blurring the lines between fiction and non-fiction (from Chris Marker to Godard and Jia Zheng Ke to quote a few).

[Fuuma]

Pirsig's idea is that it goes back to the struggle between the Sophists and Socrates. Socrates won, we lost. I cannot see it going this far.

I want to clarify that I think the seeds of this separation were beginning in the Renaissance but really picked up speed when science made huge strides and parallel to that philosophers began to talk about the Enlightenment.

I'm not sure I get the point about the Greeks and the science/arts divide considering their own divide was very clear and had important consequences in western society.

Techne: active doing (so arts/crafts/technical feats) united things like building a bridge, making a vase or making music.
praxis: action containing its own finality (ethics etc.)

Sure there's stuff about poesis and techne and blabla but what they really brought to the fore and agreed on was the division between the suspicion you should feel for techne and the superiority of the work of the mind, having to do with polis and all that good stuff.

In the middle-ages you had techne and episteme so clearly still something about "doing" versus the "humanities".

Also design as central for a product is nothing new and yeah, Ikea was a better feat than the fucking white iphone rectangle. Braun and al also come to mind. I don't see a difference in nature between Apple and any other company pushing a product, maybe in degrees and organizational structure (their design team is pretty central I think). Maybe the close versus open environment is more important for defining Apple if we're being honest.

[Fuuma]

http://www.factmag.com/2015/08/06/st...aunch-in-2017/

[unwashed]

Don't we have a WTF thread for this bullshit?

[dji]

to 4K or not to 4K. just sold my TV as I'm moving across the country and looking to get a 60-65" Vizio (the price-quality ratio is amazing these days), tossing up between the 1080P E-series or the 4K M-series.

[Faust]

4k for sure. Why invest in what is surely an eventually outdated technology? Would you have been buying a DVD player when you already knew that Blu-Ray is inevitable? The 4k TVs are so inexpensive these days, it's only a few hundred more.

Take the Faustian rule and think of all prices in terms of Rick Owens t-shirts

Can you hold out a couple of weeks? There will be MAJOR sales at the start of the footbal season/labor day in the beginning of September.

I suggest browsing slickdeals.net every day. There's always something.

But I would stay away from Vizio and pay a few hundred more for a quality brand like Samsung or Sony. Not all TVs are created equal. There are factors other than resolution.

[En.]

Google is now under newly created parent company, Alphabet.

[unwashed]

Depends on what you use the TV for and for how long you plan on using it.
I was in doubt between 4K and 1080p as well. 4K is still a new technology and there are still a lot of bugs and troubles with it while 1080p is proven technology.

If you game on your TV and play like shooters or games with quick response, then go for a 1080p. The gaming consoles do not support 4K and will not suppot it. Also the upscaling is not always done good and makes response times slow.

There is no content yet besides a few Netflix series, I only heard of House of cards. Blu rays aren't available and Youtube is compressed to shit. I think maybe around 2 years 4K content would be better available.

And besides, if you really want to get te best out of your 4K then for a 55" the sweetspot is around 1/1,5 meter from your screen the further you sit away the less you will notice. Around 2/3 meter you hardly notice any difference at all.

My advise, buy a high end 1080p and save yourself a grand to buy a new Rick leather or something :p I call 4K marketing BS.

Better yet, go ultimate and buy an OLED

[Faust]

Funny, you are mentioning OLED. I had a friend who was working on that 11 years ago already and it seemed like utter science fiction when he was telling me about the potential of organic material emitting lights (like you'd be able to roll up your TV and take it with you).

[dji]

thanks for the opinions guys!

E appreciate the reminder regarding the Labor Day sales, thought I might have to wait till Black Friday to get a deal and was mulling if I could go without a TV that long. timing is perfect too as I'll be back from Oz at the start of that week!

I'll most likely go with a 4K set. I don't plan to replace it for at least a few years (unless I have to up and move cross country again..) and from what I've seen in stores and read in reviews the technology is mature enough now.

unwashed I'd love an OLED screen but I still need to buy a new car too. I game on my TV (just finished Witcher 3 last week, holy shit what an epic game..) but also stream something most nights with the occasional Blu-ray in the mix. the screens I've been looking at have low input latency (even compared to 1080p models) so gaming shouldn't be a problem.

speaking of OLED screens, the screen on my OG PS Vita is still the one of the most vibrant I've seen even though the tech is 3+ years old now.

[unwashed]

I have the new Vita and it's crap..

I'd investigated for about half a year before replacing my old LED full backlit tv. I focussed on the samsung UE55HU7500L. Maybe the US type would be different I don't know. This was the most back for buck TV and saw a very big drop since the 2015 models came out. I have checked the TV multiple times in the store and footage was stunning. But the input lag 69ms which means missing almost 2 frames a second held me back. I thought a software patch slightly fixed this.

I also checked out the LG55EC930V OLED Full HD. This TV obliterated every other TV in the store. But it's fucking curved and hate curved TV's. If the price wasn't that high I would have taken the LG and accepted the curve . I missed an opportunity to buy it for 1k euro off current retail . Rather had some ccrap shoes at the time haha...

But in the end I compared a Sony 2014 model Full HD (55W828b) with a 4K screen both showing 1080p footage and saw 0 difference. Even the salesguy agreed with me. I went for this Sony in the end for half the price of the Samsung I wanted. Funny thing is that the black values of my 7 year old Samsung were better than all the edge-lit tv's. This is my only complaint about my current TV and I plan to use it for at least 5 years. By then 16K will be released

So my advise: go to the store, take your footage with you and ask them to play it. Bring your gameconsole or something and just compare. Also go check out TV's several times. Sometimes you might be tired and not seeing to well and clouds your judgement.

[lowrey]

go to the store, take your footage with you and ask them to play it.

what if they throw you out