Originally posted by Faust
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post moved from What Are You Wearing Today
Originally posted by zamb View Postmy original argument is that marriage is as old as human civilization, and as long as human beings exist there will always be the need to marry.
I am not saying we cannot lived without or never lived without the institution or different forms of it. I am saying the institution is as old as human civilization itself and will continue to exist because human being will always have the desire to do so,
Amidst the failures of the institution in modern society there is no greater pledge that one can make to a person they love and want to be with than the pledge of marriage...........
That said, it's crucially important to remember that "love", "vows", "marriage" and "weddings" are socially and historically specific. As Fuuma noted, we can't assume that any of those categories *are* simply because they must *be*. Unless you're outside of society (and I promise you, you aren't), you've chosen to live alongside a group of people with whom you've agreed to, at the very least, basics in a particular social contract. Our modern, western (Northern Atlantic) social contract through which we operate happens to be one in which there is a multitude of options for pairings, including poly pairings. It in no way suggests a decline of "values" - I think the most we can say is that modernity in (Western) society allows for a differing set of possibilities when it comes to marriage or commitment because marriage doesn't do the *social* work that it once did. We have a legal system in place so that if someone kills your husband, your mother's nephew doesn't have to enact revenge. Given our geographic mobility, and emphasis on the "individual" (so annoying) we are no longer as implicated within a set of kin obligations as we may have once -- for reasons fine and good -- been.
It's pointless not to "believe in marriage." It's a socially constructed practice that mediates between sets of social orders -- and practiced where it is desired and/or does "work". As such, it's a simple reality that is, and like, for example, the monarchy, you have to decide if it is a practice that means something to you...if it's not, then don't switch on to watch the royal wedding, as it were.
It seems some of us are complaining over how this particular ritual has become commoditized...that's a whole 'notha thing, I'll skip. What does this have to do with what tbone is wearing at the wedding? If you are close enough to be invited, I would hope it would be understood by the couple that you're there to that you feel a sense of obligation to them. And here's the magical thing: so long as you know the couple and know that they'll allow for broader interpretation of the dress code,you can still convey the seriousness of your sense of mutual obligation with them whilst wearing drop-crotch shorts. Also, they're tailored(?)
OK, so that was long, but I haven't done that in forever so I'm gonna use my bi-annual license to expound, alright?
MBD
p.s. If you could see CJ's wife, I'm many of you would suddenly be very into the idea of marriage. Heh."To articulate what is past does not mean to recognize 'how it really was.'
It means to take control of a memory, as it flashes in a moment of danger."
-Walter Benjamin. Thesis VI, Theses on the Philosophy of History
My rarities and quotidian garments for sale thread. My tumblr and eBay page.
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Allow me to note that this argument was about the meaning of weddings.
Zamb turned it into the meaning of marriage, which is quite a different discussion.
And allow me, MBD, to state that the comparison to monarchy is rather poor. Simply because it exists, you can't be for or against it?sicut lilium inter spinas
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Personally, I wouldn't wear the outfit that sparked this discussion to any of the weddings I've been to/will go to soon, simply because I don't think any of the couples would have appreciated it. Think what you will about marriage (I still haven't made my mind up about it to be honest - I certainly want a monogamous relationship and children somewhere down the road though), a wedding is about the two people who are celebrating their love and dedication for each other. If they're the type who would be fine with me wearing drop crotches/sissy pee/etc to a wedding I'd consider it, until then I'll wear 'boring' suits, because a wedding isn't about my 'individuality' or whatever. I'd show up in just about anything if it made the couple appreciate the day more, just as I hope people would for my wedding.
But if the outfit was seen as appropriate for the event by the newly weds, then it's all good of course.Originally posted by jogui went out to take garbage out and froze my tits runnin down stairs , think im gonna chill at home tonite . hungry tho anyone have cool ideas on what to order for supper , not pizza tho sick of pizza
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MBD: do you really think the highly theoretical concept of social contract has any relevance to describe actual social mechanisms?pix
Originally posted by FuumaFuck you and your viewpoint, I hate this depoliticized environment where every opinion should be respected, no matter how moronic. My avatar was chosen just for you, die in a ditch fucker.
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Excellent post MBD. I posted a long thing about marriage in some thread awhile ago, but I can agree with most everything you say.
As a "gay", my feelings are a bit mixed about marriage for myself. On one hand, I think far too many resources are poured into the marriage equality fight when there are more important battles to be fought (economic inequality, bullying/harassment, rights to housing/healthcare). On the other, I think it is a nice right to have for those who want to have their relationship validated in a traditional way whatever the gender of the couple.
It's funny because the right wingers are against gay marriage just as much as the far left queer radicals which drives me crazy (we have enough problems without undermining our own movement...).
At the same time, having just ended a four year relationship with someone who I thought I might spend the rest of my life with, the idea of marriage sounds kind of nice. I think the next guy I will ask if he's into being legally bound to me forever, because I can't take another breakup
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idk if i like the idea of bein with someone for life , i mean like in a non friend way . and i def dont like livin with someone forever either . i reeeeeally fuckin hate feelin like i need to sometimes watch what i do etc like if im playin xbox all nite and then its all " what are u still fuckin up playin games ? " . i hate that shit so much , at 1st i feel bad like fine fine ill turn it off and then a minute later when im turnin the lites off i get pretty angry instead like jesus fuckin christ i should be able to do w /e the hell i want
if its just sex man u can get that anywhere so dont rly need to marry someone for that . cant rly think of anything else that makes gettin married worth it , easier to be single OR just date someone but keep it as dating and not marriage . noooooo maam
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Originally posted by jogu View Postidk if i like the idea of bein with someone for life , i mean like in a non friend way . and i def dont like livin with someone forever either . i reeeeeally fuckin hate feelin like i need to sometimes watch what i do etc like if im playin xbox all nite and then its all " what are u still fuckin up playin games ? " . i hate that shit so much , at 1st i feel bad like fine fine ill turn it off and then a minute later when im turnin the lites off i get pretty angry instead like jesus fuckin christ i should be able to do w /e the hell i want"AVANT GUARDE HIGHEST FASHION. NOW NOW this is it people, these are the brands no one fucking knows and people are like WTF. they do everything by hand in their freaking secret basement and shit."
STYLEZEITGEIST MAGAZINE | BLOG
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Originally posted by MetroBulotDodo View PostIt's pointless not to "believe in marriage." It's a socially constructed practice that mediates between sets of social orders -- and practiced where it is desired and/or does "work". As such, it's a simple reality that is, and like, for example, the monarchy, you have to decide if it is a practice that means something to you...if it's not, then don't switch on to watch the royal wedding, as it were."AVANT GUARDE HIGHEST FASHION. NOW NOW this is it people, these are the brands no one fucking knows and people are like WTF. they do everything by hand in their freaking secret basement and shit."
STYLEZEITGEIST MAGAZINE | BLOG
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Originally posted by lowrey View PostAgreed. It makes perfect sense that marriage is not for everyone, but the concept of "not believing in it" has always seemed weird to me. Since I got married I've actually had a couple of people rant to my face how they don't get marriage or don't somehow believe in it. I've told them that if you don't get it, you probably don't have any reason to get married and thats fine, but this shouldn't be generalized in either direction.
Are you serious? Wow.Fashion is a form of ugliness so intolerable that we have to alter it every six months - Oscar Wilde
StyleZeitgeist Magazine
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