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**Fuuma** · 05-08-2007, 03:53 PM

Re: What are you reading?

[quote user="Faust"]The World, the Text, and the Critic - Edward Said
[/quote]


The same Edward Said who writes about British history?

I'm reading Système de la mode (probably translated as "the fashion system" or a similarly unappealing title) by Roland Barthes, very analytical, as expected.

I want to start a discussion about the evolution of the hard boiled detective (recently read some essential works by Chandler and Hammett and this got me thinking about how the archetype evolved and making parallels with personal favourite Nestor Burma) so anybody here likes "genre" litterature or are the two terms, in your mind, incompatible?

**Faust** · 05-08-2007, 04:04 PM

Re: What are you reading?

[quote user="Fuuma"]

[quote user="Faust"]The World, the Text, and the Critic - Edward Said
[/quote]


The same Edward Said who writes about British history?

I'm reading Système de la mode (probably translated as "the fashion system" or a similarly unappealing title) by Roland Barthes, very analytical, as expected.

I want to start a discussion about the evolution of the hard boiled detective (recently read some essential works by Chandler and Hammett and this got me thinking about how the archetype evolved and making parallels with personal favourite Nestor Burma) so anybody here likes "genre" litterature or are the two terms, in your mind, incompatible?

[/quote]

Not sure. He mostly wrote literary theory and cultural criticism, although his most famous (and controversial) book is called Orientalism, has to do with history.

How do you like Barthes? I can't even begin to approach the whole French linguistic school - the writing (at least in English) is so esoteric and convoluted, it's not even funny. Or maybe I'm just not smart enough.

EDIT: I think genre literature is very compatible.

**Fuuma** · 05-09-2007, 02:27 PM

Re: What are you reading?

[quote user="Faust"][quote user="Fuuma"]

[quote user="Faust"]The World, the Text, and the Critic - Edward Said
[/quote]


The same Edward Said who writes about British history?

I'm reading Système de la mode (probably translated as "the fashion system" or a similarly unappealing title) by Roland Barthes, very analytical, as expected.

I want to start a discussion about the evolution of the hard boiled detective (recently read some essential works by Chandler and Hammett and this got me thinking about how the archetype evolved and making parallels with personal favourite Nestor Burma) so anybody here likes "genre" litterature or are the two terms, in your mind, incompatible?

[/quote]

Not sure. He mostly wrote literary theory and cultural criticism, although his most famous (and controversial) book is called Orientalism, has to do with history.

How do you like Barthes? I can't even begin to approach the whole French linguistic school - the writing (at least in English) is so esoteric and convoluted, it's not even funny. Or maybe I'm just not smart enough.

EDIT: I think genre literature is very compatible.

[/quote]

Okay, same Edward Said. By the way there?s a book called ?Ornamentalism? (I think the complete title is Ornamentalism: how the british saw their empire) thatis pretty much an answer to Said?s seminal work. I must say I?ve never read any of those books and they?re not high on my to read list right now; the one you posted sounds a million times more interesting; I?ll start using this thread to find some English language books that might be my cup of tea so good post.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>

I?m sure some of the, admittedly limited, elegance of Barthes? prose is indeed lost in translation, ironically enough the man himself could have waxed endlessly about what layers of signification are added by translations and knowing that what you?re reading is translated. That being said his work is not very accessible as it deconstructs meanings conveyed by words, their grouping and their added levels in minute detail, something that can be tiresome for someone not in the right frame of mind to face such an endeavor. Try reading mythologies; he?s basically commenting everyday news and pop culture, consequently texts are short and on everyday topics like wrestling, plastic or a new car model while the analysis is well targeted, hence concise but enlightening.<o:p></o:p>

Genre writing can be quite impressive as, while the main restriction of genre is that you have to meet some basic expectations (in other words you?re writing for someone and according to some standards which, in theory distinguish genre from other from literature), the best writers manage to subvert them to present something quite personal lying underneath the archetypical surface of their writing/plot.

**Faust** · 05-09-2007, 03:39 PM

Re: What are you reading?

/\ Word. One of the first culture shocks coming to America was finding out that science fiction is disdained by "the cultured." I could not understand it, because good SF is really philosophy with space ships, which is a great gateway for a 9 year old into more serious stuff. Once I walked into Barnes & Noble though, I realized what the problem was - in the old Soviet Union we'd get the cream of the crop, Asimov, Bradbury, Clarke, etc.; but in the US it is mixed in with a pile of garbage on the same shelf.

**laika** · 05-16-2007, 11:36 AM

Re: What are you reading?

Great post, Fuuma. I am a huge fan of Barthes myself, and I personally think his writing is fantastic. (I am a closet structuralist, I think.) He is one of the first thinkers (along with Georg Simmel) that I turn to when I am trying to figure something out. 

BTW, were you referring to Said's Orientalism, or is their some wonderful twist to the French translation of the title that I don't know about? 

Faust, don't let The Fashion System give you the wrong idea--it's one of his notoriously dry and difficult books. I agree with Fuuma that Mythologies is a great place to start. 

Reading:

Waiting for the Barbarians by Coetzee. Not liking it so much, although to be fair, it is very hard to pick up a novel after Blood Meridian. 

Architecture without Architects by Bernard Rudofsky

**Faust** · 05-16-2007, 11:44 AM

Re: What are you reading?

I thought Waiting for the Barbarians was a good book. It starts off slowly - the 2nd part is the point of the book.

I am determined not to read anything serious this summer - need to detox from school. My plan is to finish History of the Modern World and read The New Yorker on the subway. I've never red The New Yorker, glanced over a couple of times, but I do want to know what the middle brow is up to these days [:P]

**Faust** · 05-16-2007, 03:32 PM

Re: What are you reading?

Ok, so by "nothing serious" I did not count certain things, such as this.

**Faust** · 05-17-2007, 02:58 PM

Re: What are you reading?

Has anyone read The Man Without Qualities ?

**laika** · 05-17-2007, 03:38 PM

Re: What are you reading?

^I've only read bits and pieces of it. He's a wonderful writer though, a pleasure to read. I am particularly fond of his essay on monuments--it's really funny!

Let me know how it goes with the Benjamin essay. I used it quite a bit for my exams and it's still rather cryptic to me--he is so hard to figure out...[*-)] Why have you decided to read that now, if I may ask?

**Faust** · 05-17-2007, 04:46 PM

Re: What are you reading?

[quote user="laika"]

^I've only read bits and pieces of it. He's a wonderful writer though, a pleasure to read. I am particularly fond of his essay on monuments--it's really funny!

Let me know how it goes with the Benjamin essay. I used it quite a bit for my exams and it's still rather cryptic to me--he is so hard to figure out...[*-)] Why have you decided to read that now, if I may ask?


[/quote]

Cause Benjamin is cool :-) I can already see that I could've quoted him in my thesis. Oh, well - can't quote them all!

**Fuuma** · 05-17-2007, 05:02 PM

Re: What are you reading?

I haven?t finished the Musil book although I did read some parts here and there about 15 years ago. In fact I had absolutely forgotten about it and now feel like reading it in full.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Posted this on superfuture, thought it might apply here. The first one was to answer a question about Flaubert:<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
My favourite is ?L?éducation sentimentale? (no idea about the translated title), it?s an amazing book because it mixes the romantic themes of authors that preceded Flaubert (think Stendhal or Hugo) but treats them in a realistic way that inspired the crop of «realists» that succeeded him (think Zola or Balzac). So you?ve got your young bourgeois, hopelessly in love with a beautiful, married, older woman who?s above his station, however his tumultuous emotions definitely don?t reach the majestic level of Julien Sorel?s or the young Werther?s passion. The last few sentences are absolute genius.<o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Disparitions by Natsuo Kirino is a very compelling read, its atmosphere reminded me of the masterful Eureka, one of the best Japanese movies of recent years. The only relevant piece of information you need, as some viewers/readers are sometimes slow about this kind of work (think Caché by Michael Haneke), is that it is NOT a whodunit, meaning that issues of guilt are to be approached in the symbolic even near-metaphysical sense.<o:p></o:p>

**Fuuma** · 05-17-2007, 05:10 PM

Re: What are you reading?

[quote user="laika"]

Great post, Fuuma. I am a huge fan of Barthes myself, and I personally think his writing is fantastic. (I am a closet structuralist, I think.) He is one of the first thinkers (along with Georg Simmel) that I turn to when I am trying to figure something out. 

BTW, were you referring to Said's Orientalism, or is their some wonderful twist to the French translation of the title that I don't know about? 

Faust, don't let The Fashion System give you the wrong idea--it's one of his notoriously dry and difficult books. I agree with Fuuma that Mythologies is a great place to start. 

Reading:

Waiting for the Barbarians by Coetzee. Not liking it so much, although to be fair, it is very hard to pick up a novel after Blood Meridian. 

Architecture without Architects by Bernard Rudofsky

[/quote]
Barthes is so methodical he?s somewhat reassuring in a world where rational analysis often flies out the window. If you?re sitting in a comfortable chair reading his texts you feel like reality is not so cryptic after all if you take the time to approach it with an incisive mind.<?xml:namespace prefix = o ns = "urn:schemas-microsoft-com:office:office" /><o:p></o:p>
<o:p></o:p>
Ornamentalism was written by someone else, the title is obviously a pun on Said?s book as it was sort of an answer to Orientalism.<o:p></o:p>

**laika** · 05-18-2007, 09:01 AM

Re: What are you reading?

^Exactly right about Barthes! That's just how I feel. It's not just his rationality, but his precision that appeals to me....reassuring is just it. By the way, I am reading "Language of Fashion" which is a collection of different writings, and finding it more enjoyable than the Fashion System--it's almost like a prehistory of that book. 

Re: Ornamentalism--I'm sorry, I should have read your previous posts more carefully! Now I understand....who is the author? I am really intrigued by the title.

**Faust** · 05-22-2007, 04:01 PM

Re: What are you reading?

I finally fulfilled my duty of picking up The Russian Debutante's Handbook. I'm 2/3rd's in, and it's absolutely hilarious. Shteyngert is a sharp writer.

**Sly mongoose** · 05-22-2007, 04:25 PM

Re: What are you reading?

I have finally faught my way through Erving Goffmans The Presentation of Self in Everyday Life. I don't know how he managed to make something interesting sound so freakishly boring.
Next in line will be Barthes' A Lover's Discourse..

I would also like to recommend to everybody the writings of Witold Gombrowicz.. And especially the collection of short stories in Bacacay. A marvelous book!

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