What are you reading?

[Faust]

The Human Stain by Philip Roth. Amazing, obviously. The fact that he has not been given a Nobel prize in literature is an abomination and a sure sign of the shitty PC-world we live in.

[Fuuma]

The Human Stain by Philip Roth. Amazing, obviously. The fact that he has not been given a Nobel prize in literature is an abomination and a sure sign of the shitty PC-world we live in.

You think Philip Roth has never been given a Nobel in literature because of current US culture/identity wars? Please.

The Nobel prize in lit. is about as important as the Oscars (so a mainly economical and social drive but not of any artistic importance), one thing it tends to do is not focus as much on Anglo-saxon literature as Anglo-saxons would (knowing their nombrilist tendencies) expect, tbh I'm pretty much the same, I don't read that much Anglo-saxon fiction, although I'm about to begin Infinite Jest.

[Faust]

You think Philip Roth has never been given a Nobel in literature because of current US culture/identity wars? Please.

The Nobel prize in lit. is about as important as the Oscars (so a mainly economical and social drive but not of any artistic importance), one thing it tends to do is not focus as much on Anglo-saxon literature as Anglo-saxons would (knowing their nombrilist tendencies) expect, tbh I'm pretty much the same, I don't read that much Anglo-saxon fiction, although I'm about to begin Infinite Jest.

No, it's because of the FIRST WORLD culture/identity wars. Everyone in publishing knows that Roth will never get a Nobel because women in publishing and academia hate him. Have you even read Roth? Looking at the Nobel roster, some of the names are downright laughable compared to him.

Kudos for displaying your own brand of ignorance though, while constantly accusing others of having whatever you choose to brand "bourgeois taste."

[Fuuma]

No, it's because of the FIRST WORLD culture/identity wars. Everyone in publishing knows that Roth will never get a Nobel because women in publishing and academia hate him. Have you even read Roth? Looking at the Nobel roster, some of the names are downright laughable compared to him.

Kudos for displaying your own brand of ignorance though, while constantly accusing others of having whatever you choose to brand "bourgeois taste."

I have never read Philip Roth, as I confessed in a previous post I don’t read that much American literature (nonfiction is another matter entirely). I’m not taking a potshot at American literature by saying this (hey I liked Hemingway), just being honest when it comes to my reading habits.

Now back on the topic of Roth and the Nobel:
1) I don’t need to read Roth to know if he “deserves” a Nobel or not on the basis of his literary merit (an absurd question), I just need to know his generally recognized stature as a writer. So yeah, both critically acclaimed and popular, large body of relevant work etc., very possible Nobel of lit. (like several other authors).
2) I am aware that the Nobel committee balances out many criteria when it comes to choosing a Nobel winner (country of origin, political opinions, current of lit, compromise needed between judges when a choice is controversial sometimes leading to everyone’s second or third choice, need for original choices from time to time, etc.). When it comes to nominations though a large body of cultural technocrats get to suggest people and Roth def comes up there no matter what you suggest women editors and academics think (not that women are a dominant strand in literary circles).
3) While the Nobel committee balances it out it tends to favour European authors (and has a rather mysterious love of Swedish literature that I’m sure someone can explain :D) and doesn’t favour Americans as much as their rather important cultural position could possibly allow for (they still had 10 Nobel prizes, more than any country but France and English language writers had 30 prizes, more than any other language). You’ll note that Latin Americans have traditionally had the same complaint; Julio Cortazar never won the Nobel….
4) I can give you that current Nobels very often skew toward a (soft) leftist humanist point of view, a factor amongst many others but then Elfriede Jelinek, who is much more radical, won in 2004. Still it is not like a towering giant of literature like Jean Genet could have gotten the Nobel, however Philip Roth isn’t nearly that problematic.

So, not due to some PC conspiracy of hate toward Roth, especially not one lead by feminists, who aren’t a dominant force on the Nobel committee (the people who vote). Main factor is balance and less of an Americano-centric point of view.


As for “first world cultural/identity wars”versus American identity wars:

1) I assume you mean Western World (North America + Western Europe+NZ&Aus but not Japan) and not other developed countries like those found in Eastern Europe.
2) While what you saw in the United States in 2015 (it did hit its peak this year) can be found, to a lesser degree, in many of those countries, it is nowhere as important as in the United States for a variety of sociological, anthropological and historical reasons too long to detail here, suffice to say:
a. While the intellectual apparatus is partly French (Foucault on minorities being an important contributor) the actual theory on genre, race whatever is mainly American (Butler etc.).
b. The USA has a unique relationship with the long implanted black community due to the legacy of slavery.
c. This is coupled with current issues of police brutality and how it divides the country, often along racial lines, making identity politics both historically significant and current.
d. Western Europe is currently dealing with questions pertaining to National and Supra-National (i.e. Europe as a cultural and political project versus Europe as an economical integrator) identity, these debates take center stage compared to identity politics, although the later are still quite present in some countries. Once again the encounter of historical processes (consequences of WWII) and current events (Greek crisis)
e. The USA is further advanced in the process of atomization of its population, making “joining” and existing socially through these artificial community groups a much more likely coping phenomenon. Other countries will likely experience the current intensity of the identity wars with a 10-20 yrs delay.


As for the ignorance and bourgeois taste comment I have no idea what you are talking about and it feels quite irrelevant to the discussion at hand.

[NOHSAD]

Recommended by a co-worker. I'm mostly reading it when I'm on the train to and from work. It's interesting so far and I'm being open minded of it since it's something I believe I'll enjoy as i get in later chapters

[nathaliew817]

I just finished Joe Speedboat by Tommy Wieringa. It's super Dutch, edge of society, but I liked it a lot. It weird, stupid and brilliant at the same time.

But I am looking for some suggestions. I read a lot of Murakami, currently reading Kafka on the shore. I like the story but Murakami is getting very repetitive. Always the same themes, characters, the leader etc etc.

Next is Kazuo Ishiguro Never let met go. Someone recommended it to me since its Murakami-moods without the fantasy.

I am looking for a book with an isolated or detached protagonist, wandering around, could be monks, travelers, samurai, businessmen, whatever. A Kim-ki Duk movie in a book, actually. Suggestions?

[GucciAmen]

I am looking for a book with an isolated or detached protagonist, wandering around, could be monks, travelers, samurai, businessmen, whatever. A Kim-ki Duk movie in a book, actually. Suggestions?

Confessions of a Mask - Yukio Mishima (not necessarily wandering around but I would say his closeted/repressed homosexuality isolates him from his right wing milieu in imperial Japan as he grows up).

[nathaliew817]

thanks, added to my list!

[Law]

Would love some worthwhile reading suggestions (any genre, preferably non-fiction). So I'll start by asking, what is your all time favorite book? and perhaps a brief explanation why. Secondly what is a book that changed your life in some capacity, again a brief explanation would be appreciated.

[nathaliew817]

Since I guess I'm the first one checking in, in the second case:
Walden by David Henry Thoreau.

He lived 2 years in a small cabin near Walden pond. It's a mix of a diary and a sociological / society-critical essay.
It made me reevaluate my life completely.



I have read many books but not a favorite one yet.

[Law]

Since I guess I'm the first one checking in, in the second case:
Walden by David Henry Thoreau.

He lived 2 years in a small cabin near Walden pond. It's a mix of a diary and a sociological / society-critical essay.
It made me reevaluate my life completely.



I have read many books but not a favorite one yet.

Thank you! Great suggestion, will be reading that.

[Kœnig]

Recently had to return The Thief's Journal by Jean Genet to the shelf unfinished, it stuck me as particularly self-indulgent, which is a shame because it had an intriguing premise.

[Faust]

Began Purity by Jonathan Franzen yesterday. No opinion as of yet.

[nathaliew817]

Faust, please let me know, I have this on my to read list too

[Jtothewhat]

I just finished

But I am looking for some suggestions. I read a lot of Murakami, currently reading Kafka on the shore. I like the story but Murakami is getting very repetitive. Always the same themes, characters, the leader etc etc.

Next is Kazuo Ishiguro Never let met go. Someone recommended it to me since its Murakami-moods without the fantasy.

I am looking for a book with an isolated or detached protagonist, wandering around, could be monks, travelers, samurai, businessmen, whatever. A Kim-ki Duk movie in a book, actually. Suggestions?

I have also been reading a lot of Murakami lately at the behest of my fiancee who has read all of his work.. I do really enjoy his writing, and some of his work might make it onto my list of favourites but it does get very repetitive.

I was surprised to see Kim-ki Duk mentioned on this forum, and to be honest a little bit excited. Although I admittedly have not yet seen Moebius, I'm a pretty big fan of Korean literature and film.. I think that a lot of Korean literature would emulate some of the feelings that you might get from a movie like Pieta, or 3 Iron. In my opinion, as far as translated work, Korean literature shines in short stories, and a lot of the more popular short stories focus around a lone and slightly dysfunctional protagonist. I would be glad to make a list of some of my favourites if anyone is interested..

You might enjoy Kim Young-Ha's work..I quite enjoy his short story ' Lizard ' but you might enjoy his novels. I have the right to destroy myself , though maybe not exactly what you're looking for, is quite well written and did achieve relative popularity internationally. Your Republic is Calling You might be up your alley as it is about a North Korean spy living in South Korea with a family, friends, etc. though in my opinion not as strong a piece of writing as the former.