What are you reading?

[denimfan]

Re: What are you reading?

Curb Your Enthusiasm by Larry David.

[pbt]

Re: What are you reading?

Thanks to the discussion on the 'your style philosophy' thread, have been getting reacquainted with Butler's Gender Trouble. I remember it aggravated the hell out of me when I first read it -- or rather, I was hot and bothered for maybe the first 20 pages, the length of time it took me to get acquainted with the critical theory jargon she was using. Her slippery constructions (here I have to agree with Faust that JB sometimes gets clever at the expense of clarity) like the one I just dropped into my 'your style philosophy' post are just a piss off. But seriously? It is not a difficult book. Ironically, despite the fact that JB disses Terry Eagleton for producing same, this book is a primer. It is as clear an exposition as you are going to find of some of the main thrusts of Michel Foucault's thought (along with Miller's own biography, the Passion of MF, which Orwell would approve of) and some central strands of J. Derrida's which she makes intelligible, no small feat; as well as Feminist thought generally. Really, it's a primer bonanza, a primer of primers for critical theory. When she talks about the necessity of challenging "ordinary language" and "received grammar" she maybe is paying lip service to that, at best, but once you master the jargon she's (mostly) just writing straight forward expository sentences. I have to say beyond dipping into Bodies that Matter I haven't read much else. Has she complicated her style subsequently?

[pbt]

Re: What are you reading?

Allow me to amplify that last bit, I could add, "has she acquired a style subsequently" -- that defence was kind of doubly self-aggrandizing I think in the sense that not only is she not challenging in the way that Heidegger or Adorno are, but concomitantly, nor is she really in their league as a writer.

[laika]

Re: What are you reading?



I've only read Gender Trouble, Bodies that Matter, and Antigone's Claim. I don't think her style has become increasingly complicated, but I do find her work to be pretty hard going, if only because she is so unbelievably technical. I think that Miller article is a bit misleading in this respect--he conflates her position on "difficult," writing with that of Adorno, who was actively advocating unpopular modes of communication as a form of resistance to capitalism. I don't think JB takes it this far; rather, it's the need for precision, when writing under the naturalized constraints of grammar and language, that makes technical writing a necessary evil. I don't think she's lying when she says, "I'm not in favor of difficulty for difficulty's sake."</p>

Very nice review, btw. I find reading Butler agonizing, but I also see her as a primer, and almost a mouthpiece for Foucault. ( Although I actually find Foucault's writing quite clear and often beautiful.)</p>

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[DHC]

Re: What are you reading?

5 fiction novel suggestions please. And I beseech you not to suggest garbage like the pseudo-intellectual pap of the hack Dan Brown. Forgive me if I'm offending anyone. Just looking for some solid entertainment.

[pbt]

Re: What are you reading?



Laika -- thanks for pointing out Miller's conflation of JB's position on difficult writing with that of Adorno which nullifies my last criticism.

I agree with you that Foucault is a fine, lucid writer and, even in translation, elegant.
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[Faust]

Re: What are you reading?



[quote user="DHC"]5 fiction novel suggestions please. And I beseech you not to suggest garbage like the pseudo-intellectual pap of the hack Dan Brown. Forgive me if I'm offending anyone. Just looking for some solid entertainment.
[/quote]</p>

aaah, i think you just gave dan brown biggest compliment to date [72] Well, what kind of stuff do you like? if you want something intelligent but in dan brown's genre, I hear Eco's Name of the Rose is awesome. I haven't read it myself, but I'd like to one day.
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[laika]

Re: What are you reading?

[quote user="pbt"]

Laika -- thanks for pointing out Miller's conflation of JB's position on difficult writing with that of Adorno which nullifies my last criticism.

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[/quote]</p>

Kind of ironic for Miller to be so imprecise/unclear about something rather important...Orwell would have hated that.[86]</p>

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[Faust]

Re: What are you reading?

[quote user="laika"][quote user="pbt"]

Laika -- thanks for pointing out Miller's conflation of JB's position on difficult writing with that of Adorno which nullifies my last criticism.

</p>


[/quote]</p>

Kind of ironic for Miller to be so imprecise/unclear about something rather important...Orwell would have hated that.[86]</p>

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[/quote]</p>

Adorno, first and foremost was advocating difficult writing as a way to save culture from philistinism by making it difficult. So, I don't see where imprecision is.</p>

[AKA*NYC]

Re: What are you reading?



[quote user="DHC"]5 fiction novel suggestions please. And I beseech you not to suggest garbage like the pseudo-intellectual pap of the hack Dan Brown. Forgive me if I'm offending anyone. Just looking for some solid entertainment.
[/quote]</p>

Here are two fun ones for you: </p>

Libra - Don DeLillo </p>

The Elementary Particles - Michel Houellebecq</p>


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[pbt]

Re: What are you reading?

[quote user="Faust"][quote user="laika"][quote user="pbt"]

Laika -- thanks for pointing out Miller's conflation of JB's position on difficult writing with that of Adorno which nullifies my last criticism.

</p>


[/quote]</p>

Kind of ironic for Miller to be so imprecise/unclear about something rather important...Orwell would have hated that.[86]</p>

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[/quote]</p>

Adorno, first and foremost was advocating difficult writing as a way to save culture from philistinism by making it difficult. So, I don't see where imprecision is.</p>

[/quote]</p>

I don't think Laika is suggesting that Miller is mischaracterizing Adorno's position on difficult writing but that, misleadingly, he is conflating it with Butler's own position.</p>

[laika]

Re: What are you reading?

[quote user="Faust"]

Adorno, first and foremost was advocating difficult writing as a way to save culture from philistinism by making it difficult. So, I don't see where imprecision is.</p>

[/quote]</p>

I don't understand what you are trying to get at there.


But I was taking a (cheap) shot at Miller using the same logic he invokes
to take a (cheap) shot at Judith Butler. A very geeky joke basically.



Otherwise, I think his article is great. </p>

edit: yes, thank you, pbt! </p>

[Faust]

Re: What are you reading?

[quote user="laika"][quote user="Faust"]

Adorno, first and foremost was advocating difficult writing as a way to save culture from philistinism by making it difficult. So, I don't see where imprecision is.</p>

[/quote]</p>

I don't understand what you are trying to get at there.


But I was taking a (cheap) shot at Miller using the same logic he invokes
to take a (cheap) shot at Judith Butler. A very geeky joke basically.



Otherwise, I think his article is great. </p>

edit: yes, thank you, pbt! </p>

[/quote]</p>

Ahh, if you put it that way. Don't see how his shot is cheap, given the fact that Butler appeals to Adorno to defend her style of writing, but if you think that's a cheap shot, that's fine.
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[laika]

Re: What are you reading?

I think it's cheap, because it's more interested in being clever than being clear or accurate.



But I'm sure you can see the logical paradox that this brings us to [86]



So let's just agree that Adorno&gt;Butler and perhaps we can talk more about
him in the future, since I think he is a far more interesting
writer and thinker for all of us, elitist aesthetes that we are.


I say, Judith Butler is getting way too much air time around here. [:|]

[Faust]

Re: What are you reading?

haha, indeed. And, knowing Jim, I wouldn't be surprised at your assessment, although it seems that since Butler invoked Adorno, he's fair game.