Carol Christian Poell

[Chinorlz]

Re: Carol Christian Poell



Snapped another image off of the Lift website:

The much-heralded U shaped pants. I took a hard look at the form on the legs and it's fucking sweet. I must have them in black or gray. Tucked into the off white boots is perfect.

Like someone else had said, it's hard to snap a sharp photo from Lift but if you look closely you can see the twisting action around the mid-leg. Beautiful.

[Casius]

Re: Carol Christian Poell

Well it looks as though Carol's official website is going to be changing to Spring sometime soon. The front page is different and there isn't anything viewable, yet.

Oh and those U shaped pants are a must have, so beautiful.

[Chinorlz]

Re: Carol Christian Poell



Cass you beat me to it. I just saw Carol's new "coming soon" page. So distinctly Carol no? hehe

Yeah, the more I look at those U shaped pants, the more I know I have to get them. It's a good thing that The Library can do custom orders just in case places sell out of it!

[Johnny]

Re: Carol Christian Poell



Honestly, i like ccp, have some of his stuff, but they are just narrow fitting trousers....that's all they look like. if you didn't see them lying out in the u-shape you would never know.

why is this mis-shaped trouser a good thing? the fact that he makes such stupid things, like these trousers, and the horse hair ties etc, puts me off his other more normal work.

[ddohnggo]

Re: Carol Christian Poell

i kinda agree with johnny. the pants look interesting when unworn, but worn they look like regular pants with a slight twist in the leg. not really too amazing, especially for the price that it demands. i've seen the hair tie in pictures and it looks super stupid.

[Faust]

Re: Carol Christian Poell

[quote user="Johnny"]

Honestly, i like ccp, have some of his stuff, but they are just narrow fitting trousers....that's all they look like. if you didn't see them lying out in the u-shape you would never know.

why is this mis-shaped trouser a good thing? the fact that he makes such stupid things, like these trousers, and the horse hair ties etc, puts me off his other more normal work.

[/quote]

I think it's how people see it. Some see this as a gimmick, some as a sartorial experiment. That's what I think lies at the heart of discussion of someone like Thom Browne, I think.

I could live with the pants... the horsehair tie is another matter :-). Or that stupid flask that drexl pointed out, absolutely pointless...

[khiev]

Re: Carol Christian Poell

I agree, all that matters is how one views the garment, and like Albert, I cant wait to try on the pants as well. If I simply wanted some really nice pair of pants, some sort of sartorial benchmark, then I might as well have gone to hermes, or bottega, or even a top notch tailor, whose pants cost approx. 2/3 of the price. I would pay that retail price if I liked the style and wanted some pair of superlative dressy pants, but then again, when someone like Poell so obviously expresses so much thought, creativity and passion, along with an unsurpassed level of execution (plus the fact that it prob wouldnt nearly be as mass produced as hermes and bottega), then perhaps it might be worth paying that extra 1/3 of the price on a unique garment. After all, I think that most of the pple here dress for themselves, and perhaps it's about the emotions that are evoked when one finds and wears such a garment. It's all about the details...

[Faust]

Re: Carol Christian Poell

/\ however, when an emotion is the one of a satisfaction of owning something exclusive, that bothers me. it's kind of shallow, like feeling proud to belong to some exclusive club.

[laika]

Re: Carol Christian Poell



[quote user="Faust"]/\ however, when an emotion is the one of a satisfaction of owning something exclusive, that bothers me. it's kind of shallow, like feeling proud to belong to some exclusive club.
[/quote]

I agree. At that point it's just commodity fetishism and enjoyment of luxury, neither of which have anything to do with the appreciation of work and love put into a garment.

To be honest, I'm having a hard time understanding the "creativity, thought, and passion" justification for the prices of these clothes. There are other designers who invest their work with these qualities without being so unbelievably exclusive and expensive. If Chalayan or Alber Elbaz is not to your taste, fine. But to imply that their passion and hard work is somehow lesser than that of a designer whose, ahem, "aesthetic" is more to your liking is just misguided.

I don't mind the pants--the U is pretty cool. I suppose I can imagine taking pleasure in the fact that my pants form a U-shape when I take them off....there's all kinds of fetishism, after all. [:P]

[Seventh]

Re: Carol Christian Poell



I want to support ccp... I love some of his designs and I even like his mistakes (I would rather support a designer who makes the occasional crazy/stupid hair tie than one that is only concerned with functionality). But the prices... I can't. I can't comprehend, can't justify. I don't think I will ever be able to afford one of his leather pieces and honestly, as much as I like how they look, I don't know if I could wear his clothing without being acutely aware of the cost.

The point is, like Laika mentioned, I don't think he needs to make clothes with such expensive materials/manufacturing cost, he could use his creativity and intelligence to subvert the market, but instead his clothes reinforce a certain type of cultural and economic elitism.

It is all a little depressing, I feel like a marxist just thinking about it.

[laika]

Re: Carol Christian Poell

[quote user="Seventh"]

I want to support ccp... I love some of his designs and I even like his mistakes (I would rather support a designer who makes the occasional crazy/stupid hair tie than one that is only concerned with functionality). But the prices... I can't. I can't comprehend, can't justify. I don't think I will ever be able to afford one of his leather pieces and honestly, as much as I like how they look, I don't know if I could wear his clothing without being acutely aware of the cost.

The point is, like Laika mentioned, I don't think he needs to make clothes with such expensive materials/manufacturing cost, he could use his creativity and intelligence to subvert the market, but instead his clothes reinforce a certain type of cultural and economic elitism.

It is all a little depressing, I feel like a marxist just thinking about it.

[/quote]

sh*t, that is so well said. I just read a bloody amazing essay called "Marx's Coat" that made me think something similar, but I couldn't quite express it.

[khiev]

Re: Carol Christian Poell



honestly, just like how it was mentioned in the "where to start..." thread, these labels serve as filters, and thus far, I'm really liking a lot of what Poell has produced. It's not about a feeling of exclusivity because I wouldnt give a damn if everyone was able to afford ccp, just as long ccp retains its sense of quality and artisanship. So what if everyone here gets to wear ccp? Whatever quantity Poell produces is his business, and who knows the reasons behind it, perhaps he'd rather not slave around and appreciate life. I'd still buy his jackets and his boots for sure, and obviously, it really does suck that the prices are sky high.... but that alone shouldnt be the reason why someone else should feel bothered because someone else can afford it. I do agree though that it's fucked up if someone is just getting the garment simply because it would help define some sort of elite status.

But if what we're concerned here is about income distribution, and the what and what nots, then I think it's really unfair to just generally slander someone by saying that they appreciate naught but the level of exclusivity. Why cant someone be excited and passionate about finding all sorts of cool, high quality pieces of clothing and be able to afford it at the same time? It seems highly hypocritical for someone to say such a thing when the only means of truly knowing each others as people are through the posts on this forum. I certainly wouldn't be able to comfortably categorize someone's intentions and attitudes when all we get is but a glimpse of their souls.

I certainly wasnt berating other designers such as Chalayan: if someone can point me to a designer who has the same level of
"creativity, thought and passion" with at the same time a lower price
point, similar aesthetics and the same level of quality, then I would
certainly welcome any suggestions. Isn't that why we're all excited about
finding all these new niche brands?

[Casius]

Re: Carol Christian Poell

I like to think of the pants forming a "C" instead so it is the first letter to my name. [:)]

But in all seriousness, I do like what Carol does with clothing. Is his clothing expensive? Yes, but I think he offers something different to the market place, whether this is worth it, is up to the consumer. This is kind of relative to the post I made about letting style other than cost to determine the market. What I think needs to happen is there needs to be a company of a similar aesthetic that costs a fraction of the price [;)] to spread out some of the market. This might show how many people buy Carol for 'Carol' and how many buy for the aesthetic and quality.

But let's face it, we all care somewhat about designer clothing and certain looks otherwise we wouldn't spend time on a fashion forum. I do think CCP's look could be produced at half the price, but this is obviously not where CCP wanted to take the company.

[khiev]

Re: Carol Christian Poell



Seventh:

I want to support ccp... I
love some of his designs and I even like his mistakes (I would rather
support a designer who makes the occasional crazy/stupid hair tie than
one that is only concerned with functionality). But the prices... I
can't. I can't comprehend, can't justify. I don't think I will ever be
able to afford one of his leather pieces and honestly, as much as I
like how they look, I don't know if I could wear his clothing without
being acutely aware of the cost.

The point is, like Laika mentioned, I don't think he needs
to make clothes with such expensive materials/manufacturing cost, he
could use his creativity and intelligence to subvert the market, but
instead his clothes reinforce a certain type of cultural and economic
elitism.

It is all a little depressing, I feel like a marxist just thinking about it.

I understand your point, but you can't slag someone just because they design clothes as how they think clothes should be made. That is his sweat and blood going into producing these clothes, and ideally, I like to think of it as his imprint of his personality and character on making these clothes. Obviously we all want a "perfect" designer who will be able to just 'subvert' the market just as described above, but in the end, it remains Poell's choice to establish and define himself in a socio-cultural context here. Who knows if he might do it in the future? Or perhaps he is not that someone. But right now, I'm just in awe of his genius, and I'm just glad that I'm able to own some of his pieces.... not because I get this feeling of exclusivity, but for all the reasons aforementioned.

[laika]

Re: Carol Christian Poell



khiev, my post wasn't directed at you. And no one here is judging, let alone "slandering" anyone. [51]

I and others are simply pointing out the philosophical consumer issues that such prices and exclusivity lead to. This is the kind of discussion that makes this forum great, after all.