Carol Christian Poell

[ddohnggo]

it's not a fake account. just someone who doesn't have a complete command of english.

[Kir]

Yes, its not a particularly good idea to take such a stance, as he NEEDS the retailers as much as they need him, but i can understand his frustrations

I think anyone who knows CCP and sees Augusta will find the similarities pushing ridiculous. If Carol feels his ideas have been plain stolen, what can he do? In the long run I don't think anything will come of it, hopefully both will coexist peacefully.

It's part of a wider problem of technique 'sharing' between designers. When is it creative trading and when is it creative theft? Large design teams for big mass production brands stealing from small, often financially unstable independents, is an aspect of the trade that has recieved shockingly little coverage, as far as I'm aware.

[Faust]

Do you ever wonder why$$$?

[Kir]

Do you ever wonder why$$$?

Of course, I'm a journalist .

Fashion journalism in general is pretty weak, vulnerable to advertising concerns, press invites, getting that next interview etc. Doesn't mean I don't want to see some harder hitting articles occasionally.

[Faust]

Of course, I'm a journalist .

Fashion journalism in general is pretty weak, vulnerable to advertising concerns, press invites, getting that next interview etc. Doesn't mean I don't want to see some harder hitting articles occasionally.

OMG, brother in arms!

[reborn]

Yes, its not a particularly good idea to take such a stance, as he NEEDS the retailers as much as they need him, but i can understand his frustrations

I don't think the retailers "need" CCP. I am pretty sure if he carries out his warning, you'll see canceled orders.

For the more established retailers, it won't phase them as they probably carry enough merchandise from other labels to fill the void.

[Chinorlz]

While at A this past week I talked to James about Augusta after seeing photos of the incoming stuff they're ordering through him (yes... the jointed boots do indeed exist). They definitely acknowledge the blatant copying but say that he's a young guy who just loves shoes and is still evolving and trying to find his own.

As with past seasons, A is working with him in developing some more custom/special order footwear too and this will hopefully guide him in a more original direction.

I think what we're seeing is a young guy breaking into the high end niche shoe business while still not yet finding his own "voice" and instead pulling concepts and ideas from around him to build his shoes. I will grant him that his take on the jointing of the boots is decently elegant and in a way is an interesting one that does differ from Carol's. Even if he was inspired by Carol's versions to joint footwear, he did tweak it some.

That being said, I would still buy Carol's/Altieri's/Amadei's footwear versions over Augustas at this point in time but who knows what the future holds. If Augusta evolves enough to become a distinct line, it could become a unique addition to the overall aesthetic.

[surver]

agree. we should all give young designers a bit of leeway and let them find their paths... does take time...

[blacksuit]

I think he worry about retail..

[Faust]

agree. we should all give young designers a bit of leeway and let them find their paths... does take time...

However, when designers start out by making copies and selling them at exorbitant prices, Faust smells BULLSHIT.

[Faust]

I think he worry about retail..

Blacksuit, why don't you stick to reading for now? I held out long enough, and I hate to do that kind of thing, being an immigrant myself, but you have to improve your English.

[reborn]

However, when designers start out by making copies and selling them at exorbitant prices, Faust smells BULLSHIT.

Hmmm...I don't disagree. Still, in the fashion world, everyone copies everyone. Balenciaga copied Kaisik Wong in '02, H&M and Club Monaco (and just about every mass market retailer) copies runway collections each season, 7 for all Mankind copied MMM's bleach lined jeans and made a fortune...as designs are not copyrighted it seems odd to claim a silhoutte or a shape as uniquely one's own. If you can distinguish CCP from Augusta then is it really copying?

[obsolete]

Hmmm...I don't disagree. Still, in the fashion world, everyone copies everyone. Balenciaga copied Kaisik Wong in '02, H&M and Club Monaco (and just about every mass market retailer) copies runway collections each season, 7 for all Mankind copied MMM's bleach lined jeans and made a fortune...as designs are not copyrighted it seems odd to claim a silhoutte or a shape as uniquely one's own. If you can distinguish CCP from Augusta then is it really copying?

Reborn, I disagree with your arguement. It is not uncommon for a contemporary brand (7 for All Mankind) to copy high-end designers. The trickle-down effect, Runway to contemporary, is standard practice. In each case, the originator and the copy-cat do not hang together at the retail level. What's more, H&M are considered knock-off companies; "fast fashion", if youwill. What Augusta is doing is blatantly ripping off a fellow designer who sits side by side at the retail level. He has entered a market that is very specific. The designers in this market are respected and currated based on their innovation and point of view. Does Augusta bring something new to the table? Is there a specific viewpoint that the designer posesses?

-O

[reborn]

Reborn, I disagree with your arguement. It is not uncommon for a contemporary brand (7 for All Mankind) to copy high-end designers. The trickle-down effect, Runway to contemporary, is standard practice. In each case, the originator and the copy-cat do not hang together at the retail level. What's more, H&M are considered knock-off companies; "fast fashion", if youwill. What Augusta is doing is blatantly ripping off a fellow designer who sits side by side at the retail level. He has entered a market that is very specific. The designers in this market are respected and currated based on their innovation and point of view. Does Augusta bring something new to the table? Is there a specific viewpoint that the designer posesses?

-O

If you are "curating" a collection then you are purposefully selecting pieces that stand out as exemplars of that designer's work...If all of their work is a copy then why bother including them?

Augusta copies CCP.
Augusta can be distinguished from CCP.
Augusta is different from CCP.

I am not trying to say for copying another person's work. It happens. I am asking, what's the issue/problem with copying? Augusta is not producing CCP and trying to sell it as CCP. He has taken a design, made it his own and is selling it as his own (not as CCP by Augusta)

[Magician]

^ I don't think your statements are mutually exclusive.

Obviously, Augusta is not producing 1:1 knockoffs, which would be a pretty clean cut illegal and unethical thing. However it also seems pretty clear that it is not a case of "random synchronicity" (which I do believe occurs frequently, especially in fashion). Augusta has produced several designs that seem directly inspired by Poell's work, and both designers are positioned in the same tiny, niche market. I think the above is pretty undisputed.

The gray area is what to do about it. Sometimes in these situations it is (understandably) a commercial consideration - but I doubt it's the case here. Because of the Poell brand model and customer base, I doubt they are worried about selling less just because someone can get the same from Augusta for (slightly cheaper). I imagine it's largely a matter of artistic integrity - Poell worked hard to create these designs, and he wants them done right, and distributed in the exclusive manner he favors. While it would be unpleasant for retailers and possibly Poell himself, I think it is not entirely unreasonable to take this approach.

Disclosure: I really love both CCP and Augusta footwear, but own neither.
/armchair quarterbacking.