Carol Christian Poell

[obsolete]

"If you are "curating" a collection then you are purposefully selecting pieces that stand out as exemplars of that designer's work...If all of their work is a copy then why bother including them?"

For the sake of this arguement, I am viewing Atelier as a sort of museum, and Karlo as its curator. I feel Karlo is "purposefully selecting pieces that stand out as exemplars of (a) designer's work", and to a greater degree, designers that stand out in the area of advanced menswear. The inclusion of Augusta in his store does surprise me. However, the quality and craftsmanship is there, the aesthetic is there, so why not buy Augusta? Maybe I should not place store buyers on such a pedestal. After all, this is a business, and Augusta's do sell to the same crowd who buys CCP.

Magician, I like your response. I always assumed that "Artistic integrity" was one of the core reasons Atelier was so selective, along with innovation.

-j

[reborn]

illegal[/B] and unethical thing. ...

Using someone elses designs is neither illegal (clothing designs are not copyrighted and only in limited cases patented) nor unethical (designers high and low "borrow" inspiration from one another all the time, which implies the act of copying is part of the fashion industry). I don't want to seem antagonistic, but it seems like there's a double standard regarding who copies and when it's acceptable... whatever.

[Chinorlz]

I think it does just come down to artistic integrity in the end. We can all pretty much pick out an Augusta versus a Poell shoe (although I did make a mistake with the white boots that used to be in A's window via a photo a few months back haha) and buy one or the other because of that silhouette/structure.

I don't see (at least not SZers really) any customer stealing by Augusta from CCP clients, nor have I yet to read anyone write on here saying any augusta designed footwear was better than Carol's.

The matter of artistic individuality and originality is what likely struck a chord with Carol leading to his message to retailers. The leather lamination, upper stapling and jointing concepts are very much distinctly Carol innovations and to have those taken and then sold for an equally high price next to his own original boots is definitely something to be mad about.

Reborn is right in that there is no illegality in design copying as long as you're not misrepresenting what you are producing. In this case one can argue that it's being a bit unethical though of Cecchetto to command very similar pricing to Carol while utilizing techniques and methods that are distinctly his. Here's to hoping that he explores more into the realms of things such as the thermochromic leather and really starts to build Augusta into a line that is reminiscent of no one. He clearly has the shoe construction know-how, I want to see him keep taking the design and material to another level instead of tweaking someone else's design.

[Magician]

To clarify: When I said 1:1 copies, I meant faking it and passing it off as the real deal. I know that anything beyond this is not really illegal.

I do think direct design copying is generally unethical, but there are obvious exceptions: Design Houses going back in to their own archives or Margiela recreating thrifted pieces come to mind.

Chinorlz pretty much said it well though.

[reborn]

I think it does just come down to artistic integrity in the end. We can all pretty much pick out an Augusta versus a Poell shoe (although I did make a mistake with the white boots that used to be in A's window via a photo a few months back haha) and buy one or the other because of that silhouette/structure.

I don't see (at least not SZers really) any customer stealing by Augusta from CCP clients, nor have I yet to read anyone write on here saying any augusta designed footwear was better than Carol's.

The matter of artistic individuality and originality is what likely struck a chord with Carol leading to his message to retailers. The leather lamination, upper stapling and jointing concepts are very much distinctly Carol innovations and to have those taken and then sold for an equally high price next to his own original boots is definitely something to be mad about.

Reborn is right in that there is no illegality in design copying as long as you're not misrepresenting what you are producing. In this case one can argue that it's being a bit unethical though of Cecchetto to command very similar pricing to Carol while utilizing techniques and methods that are distinctly his. Here's to hoping that he explores more into the realms of things such as the thermochromic leather and really starts to build Augusta into a line that is reminiscent of no one. He clearly has the shoe construction know-how, I want to see him keep taking the design and material to another level instead of tweaking someone else's design.

Well said.

[Chinorlz]

thanks

I think we're all on the same page about this... you should see the jointed boots though. Regardless of all this they're at least an interesting take!

[Faust]

Albert echos my sentiments exactly.

[philip nod]

While at A this past week I talked to James about Augusta after seeing photos of the incoming stuff they're ordering through him (yes... the jointed boots do indeed exist). They definitely acknowledge the blatant copying but say that he's a young guy who just loves shoes and is still evolving and trying to find his own.

As with past seasons, A is working with him in developing some more custom/special order footwear too and this will hopefully guide him in a more original direction.

I think what we're seeing is a young guy breaking into the high end niche shoe business while still not yet finding his own "voice" and instead pulling concepts and ideas from around him to build his shoes. I will grant him that his take on the jointing of the boots is decently elegant and in a way is an interesting one that does differ from Carol's. Even if he was inspired by Carol's versions to joint footwear, he did tweak it some.

That being said, I would still buy Carol's/Altieri's/Amadei's footwear versions over Augustas at this point in time but who knows what the future holds. If Augusta evolves enough to become a distinct line, it could become a unique addition to the overall aesthetic.

looks like the dark side of the force is even stronger in the new A. and the SA's have apparently learned the mind tricks of the jedi.

[ddohnggo]

dick oven would agree that sissy p > augusta

[philip nod]

didn't even get a chance to post up w a dress and im already sissy p, oh lucky me

[Raw Edge]

back to actual ccp, rather than fakes, for a second-
anyone know the material/season of these, and if theyre as cool in person?
I think I saw Satoru rock these one time, but at the time I thought it was just a really beat up pair of white ccps.
They might even evade the white boots pogrom (progrom). Or....they could just look like beat up boots in person- I've had that feeling when seeing some of the other super-distressed stuff.

[Casius]

I believe they are pony hair.

[tangerine]

No white footwear shall escape the white shoes/boots/sandals pogrom.

[ddohnggo]

his ccp shoes aren't those. the one you're probably referring to are the elusive paper derbys.

[Faust]

No white footwear shall escape the white shoes/boots/sandals pogrom.

Word!