Carol Christian Poell

[asho]

hehe, I'm not perfect with my footwear vernacular. Thanks for the correction. It's all boots and sneakers in my closet

don't mention it...

[Nathaniel Dwell]

"FE-MALE"
Autumn/Winter 2000-2001 Collection, cont'd






these two are from an installation, but feature a similar method of using casts as garments:




Also, i believe he once did a dipped heel for a women's collection before. I'm not positive, but i recall seeing it a little while back (it was several seasons ago, not recently).

Honestly, i'm not a huge of fan of Carol's collections for women. I love what designers like Gustavolins or Yohji do to accentuate femininity, and i'm even partial to designers like Todd Lynn or Delphine Wilson for womenswear. I have maybe 2-3 more seasons of Carol's womenswear pictures, but they're not as flattering as even this one i posted, imo. But, if you'd like to see them, i wouldn't mind posting them up after.

yes please post more on the womeswear...
if you have those photos

thank you

[khiev]

Laika, which features of Poell's design made you think that there is something deeply misogynistic about them? Is it the fact that his clothes dont really create an aesthetically pleasing silhouette for women? I really dont think that Poell would ever bother to purposely display entire collections for females just to show how much he hates them (on a different note, I also dont think he'd show a video of his clothes in motion if he wasnt into fluidity, it's just a different sort of fluidity).

I view his earlier women's pieces are pure experimentation and I dont think he's quite satisfied with his own take on designing for the female form. I think that for now, designing menswear preoccupies his mind too much to even think about putting as much effort and thought behind a female collection.

Like Albert wrote, Poell does produce pieces in women's sizes. For these pieces, Poell doesnt drastically change the lines that his clothes were supposed to create, he simply did some minor tweaking to assure that they conform to the female wearer, from the blazer right down to the boots. What you'll see then is that Poell refuses to steer away from his preferred strict and hard edged aesthetic and if women like those lines, then all the better, hence his (small) production for women sizes. I really dont think you're likely to see a blazer with a tight pinched waist and flared bottom accompanied by skinny pants à la Balenciaga (they wouldnt exactly match his footwear). I just dont see it happening and it is within these kind of constraints that Poell struggles to develop as cool a silhouette and aesthetic as relevant for women as it is for his male collections. Just take the relationship between his pants and boots for example. It's tough to find another designer capable of creating pants that go as well with his boots. I find most of Poell's pants and jeans to feature a necessary hard edge to them and yet there's also a much greater visual sense of classicism in them that's needed to subdue that in-your-face feeling that his boots tend to evoke. Everything from the design of the fly, the high rise, the fabric, the unique interior stitching, the differing silhouettes, etc. were created to perfectly complement the footwear conceptually and visually. So for Poell to create an entire female collection would require a completely different set of rules and we know that he's already explored that possibility in that German interview and found it tricky to cope it.

I also do not find his women's sizes to be unattractive on the female form at all, the lady at Lift completely dispels that theory. Most of the CCP clothes and accessories she wears look as though they were made for her. She wears CCP most of the time I've seen her and she's totally rocking in them. That being said, I'm much more familiar with his male collections and I havent handled that many female pieces to give an apt view of his design philosophy for women.

Btw, have you worn that Chalayan dress to the wedding yet? We'd love to see it!

[Fuuma]

This idea is very interesting, but I would take it in a good way. Clothes aren't only made to enhance individual power, or self esteem, but also to show the weakness/vulnerabilities of a/the body.

I agree with you Pnod and Laika when I see this :

A pleated fly to show that something is definitely missing here on the woman anatomy. Very nice. Freud would have liked. But, again, CCP is Austrian, like Sigmund F. And it's nothing else than a joke imo.

But I also dont' agree with you, since I think that the pagoda shaped coat (with their narrow upper part and quite wide bottom) suit the women's anatomy very well, and, on the contrary, give to the men a strange, but nice, ambiguity. Especially on A's pictures, as if they had round bellies - bosom.

Sonme of CCP's jackets have a faint feminizing effect; I'm not sure if I'm supposed to think of 17th century military outfits or contemporary women's attire.

[zamb]

its interesting to me,to see so many people drawing different interpretations and suggesting reasons as to the disparity/ differences/ lack therof and psychological reasonings behind poells menswear v/s his womenswear, it would be interesting to understand what's the rationale that drives him to create the clothing he does.
but from my vantage point, i can see a designer being very good at menswear, or at least menswear that speaks to a certain aesthetic and being very weak in womenswear to the point where such limitation causes him to conclude that womenswear is just not worth any major investment by him. Menswear can be a very strict discipline, which is perfectly appropriated to Poells rigourous style while womenswear requires a broader range and versatility that poell may not be comfortable with.
I am saying this because from my experience, while i havent done menswear in ages, it is perfectly easy for me to design for men than for women, i still struggle with certain aspects of womenswear............even feeling a certain sense of insecurity, especally when designing, certain types of dresses, skirts etc, (some of you who are familiar with my earlier work might see the overabundance of tailoring in the womens pieces) while with menswear i can answer certain questions as a male that the comparable answers in womens is beyond me. I am seeing this in poells work, where the menswear has a certain level of confidence and functionality that is lacking in the womenswear. the result of this is that the womenswear seems somewhat unwearable and almost artsy, without addressing the realistic needs of the wearer.....
Maybe this is even why he just scale down the menswear to womens sizes for women who want to wear Poell and can appreciate the masculity of the mens pieces in their sizes...........

If only Poell would appear and explain himself, I am almost certain he is a SZ member or at least lurks here sometimes.........

[Faust]

/\ At least if he would grant me an interview, it'd be a start :-) But hey, mystique is mystique, you know.

[mute]

i dig the carapace analogy, but for me this is about the conceptual and physical overlay of one organismic skin system which has ceased living over another that continues to; not mitigated by the usual intervention of lining which for reasons of luxury and/or practicality represent attempts at a humanizing mediation, and the translucent quality heightening the collision of forces that represent some of the ideas within poell's work.

I think this is exactly why I find it so compelling. the garment literally (visually) entangles the wearer's flesh and the worn leather, thereby touching on clothing's fundamental place at the threshold between subject and object, the unheilmliche interstice par excellence, making a reactive shiver all the more fitting. I especially like the transparent leather in its glove application, which brings a whole new level of precision to merz's carapace characterization. I wish I had the means to outfit myself in densely layered CCP with the principle of ecdysis holding conceptual compass. one could moult beautifully with the seasons. And while I'm wishing, I wish carol would address the formal qualities of insects more directly in his work, in terms of materials as well as construction principles, e.g., scar stitched face masks culled from the black meat of the giant brazilian aquatic centipede.

[zamb]

/\ At least if he would grant me an interview, it'd be a start :-) But hey, mystique is mystique, you know.

Am i to believe that you contacted them but wasnt granted an interview request?

that would be a shame as i am sure there is no other site with such a comprehensive discussion regarding his work.........which, come to think of it, may make such an interview unnecessary

[almroth]

I kind of enjoy reading everyones personal views and thoughts of CCP, perhaps he does as well rather than explaining his vision. the first time I saw his work I thought of it was something really raw, unexplored and exciting as I had never seen anything like it before. oh, and that was on SZ.

[Faust]

Am i to believe that you contacted them but wasnt granted an interview request?

that would be a shame as i am sure there is no other site with such a comprehensive discussion regarding his work.........which, come to think of it, may make such an interview unnecessary

Yea, but I don't think I introduced myself properly back then.

[philip nod]

khiev -I really dont think that Poell would ever bother to purposely display entire collections for females just to show how much he hates them


this is why i think that he hates them. poell seems to be the type of guy that explores his hatred. lets not forget, poell work is fucking dark as fuck.
--

[ddohnggo]

some keywords from ccp's site:

CAROL,CHRISTIAN,POELL,Austrian,Fashion,Designer,Artist,CCP,2008,2009,Male,Female,Milan,Collection,Subversive,Socio-critical,Fashion-Design,Mainstream,Downstream,off-scene,00"

[laika]

thanks for the great posts, albert, khiev, and zam, especially. you are definitely pushing me to think more about my instinctive reaction.

no time to write a real post now but here's a few questions and fragments i found interesting.

some keywords from ccp's site:

CAROL,CHRISTIAN,POELL,Austrian,Fashion,Designer,Artist,CCP,2008,2009,Male,Female,Milan,Collection,Subversive,Socio-critical,Fashion-Design,Mainstream,Downstream,off-scene,00"

ok. So what do you think he critiquing here (in the fe-male collection, especially), and do you think it is successful (as art or as fashion)???




Here is another bit of text from the website...i definitely think this undercuts the idea that he is "celebrating" the body.

AS FOR THE MALE COLLECTION THE FE-MALE COLLECTION IS DERIVED FROM TRADITIONAL TAILORING, REFLECTION ON GENDER RULES AND QUESTIONING HUMAN CUSTOM.

ON THE CONTRARY TO MEN, WOMEN ARE ALLOWED ALMOST EVERYTHING IN THEIR APPEARANCE. THEREFORE IN THE C.C.P. COLLECTION THE IMAGE OF THE WOMAN IS RESTRICTED AND THAT OF THE MAN MORE LIBERATED. THE DIFFERENCE OF THE SEXES CHANGES CONSTANTLY, ON THE OTHER HAND IT STILL COMES DOWN TO THE SAME OLD BASICS: MALE AND FE-MALE WILL ALWAYS DIFFER.

Also a few more pictures that i pulled from the interviews in the media thread...how the female body is represented as "restricted."

[philip nod]

^maldoror, drawing restraint?

[deleuze]

I interpret "restricted" as being restricted from expressing themselves freely which has traditionally been considered a female trait whether that expression takes a sexual, irrational or capricious form. I think with his women's clothing he is questioning norms of femininity even what may be considered positive or empowering norms. Hence, the appearance of mysoginism. The clothes and presentation are neither flattering, beautiful, elegant nor sexy but I don't think they are supposed to be the same way the men's line isn't supposed to be conservative, strong, or responsible. The men's line has developed over the years through addition but where can the women's line go when it starts with subtraction? I agree with others that I think he just gave up on it because he was at a lost for what came next.