NEXT

[pierce4]

I understand the point your making Geoffrey. Everything you say about the way people feel (legitimatly as well) rings exactly the same as pre war europe. Disillusionment with capitalism, lack of community...hitler exploited this by coming up with an answer to the exact same issues you highlight. I think though that it is a pandoras box, you can't control it. Consumption and the humanity that generates it has to be let run it's course. You have to let it run and see what happens. Trying to restrict it will end in disaster. We have the past to prove that.

http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/3177257?uid=3737864&uid=2129&uid=2&uid=70&uid=4&sid=21101202518637

Read that.

"Scolars now recognize the role of both fascism and modernist aesthetics in the emergence of an anti-enlightenment movements opposed to to the democratic tradition that was the heritage of the Englightment thought. Indeed, the rise of fascism in Europe responded to a widespread search for spiritual values and organic institutions, capable of counteracting what was considered the corrosive effects of capitalism and rationalism on the body politic."

The only future is the future.

[surver]

wow... there is a general overall stagnation in the zeitgeist lately... been noticing very very few postings re any designers work/collections and only in other subjects... especially telling is the re-upheaval of the 'favourite collections' thread where suddenly so many people posted... nostalgia and good ol' times... this is not just happening in the fashion-related fields, but seems to be everywhere... are we all just too jaded with everything since information and imagery are so easily accessible nowadays that nothing is 'precious' anymore???

as an architect, i've been sooo bored and tired of looking at all the trendy flashy one-liner designs (that all look the same since they're worked on mostly with similar softwares) that are so superficial that you get bored shortly after seeing the first few images... ie, nothing has depth anymore... this is especially true with the current [junk] output of the so-called stararchitects.. nothing is inspiring at all... i've been finding myself going back to rereading to try to rediscover 'depth' and 'substance' from the old masters... till today, no one is able to surpass le corbusier, alvar aalto, carlo scarpa, sigurd lewerentz, richard neutra, frank lloyd wright, e & e saarinen, carlo mollino, gio ponti, etc etc etc...

all the ease of access and technology makes everything too simple and direct, hence 'thin' and 'superficial'... those that try to stay true to their work and maintain rigor and criticality in turn rather choose to turn their back to the greater society and go into recluse and not interact with the [overly social and thin] society at large... thus enabling a bad cycle where only crap gets passed around and the really pioneering/original is hidden...

am rambling a bit but hopefully got my point across otherwise will revisit and edit to speak more clearly ;P

[pierce4]

The last two posts is why I love stylezeitgeist.

I was feeling the exact same up until recently. It just felt like I was living in side a business model. Everywhere I looked I could just see cheap shilling going ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shill ) on. Personally, I imagined it was akin to the pressure of living in a police state, in that there seems to no alternative to the mainstream way of living. A certain lifestyle of consumption and making money was being forced on me and I didn't believe in it. Like what Zizek defines as the Great Cynicism, we all know it is fucked on an individual level, yet on a group level we all keep acting like everything is peechy. Luckily I had some good friends who actually have lived in police states and they said that it was the same feeling, something was wrong but no one was saying it. Everything I read just reenforced the feeling in me.
At this point I had two options, I could go down the road of being angry with everything or try and fix things.

After alot of thought I came up with a solution and it seems to be working.

1) Deleted my Facebook account.
2) Reconnected with my work. All this internet stream of info was just distracting me from what always made me happy, being creative.
3) I was worried about being out of touch considering I was shutting down my social network accounts, so I chose 5 sources of information that I value and signed up to their mailing lists. I now get mails once a day with all the info I need, which keeps me filled in.
4) Started reading a book before falling asleep at night instead of reading crap on my iPad in bed and getting angry.
5) Activism instead of slacktivism.

Stress levels have reduced substantially and my anger towards all the idiots out there and the shit they are making of the world is decreasing.

I could tell you the story of how I snorted half a gram of ketamine in one go and how reading online news sites while high was the straw that broke the camels back and the catalyst to change...the reason they give you Ketamine in an accident is not because it kills pain, it is because it gives you total third party objectivity from the reality of the situation you are in. Like in an accident: "Oh I'm here and my foot is over there, thats going to hurt in a while". Lets just say reading the New York Times online and the stories contained within while high on ketamine was like a veil had been lifted and the clarity with which absurdity of the current zeitgeist became apparent...something akin to a monty python sketch set in Flatlands is what I would sum us up as ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flatland )...

[Faust]

Kind of makes me think of how Altieri only shows things not for production while the n-th generation of 'artisanal' lines hurry to stock Chinese megaballer shops with their latest iterations. The true leap, tangent of imagination leading elsewhere entirely, has gone completely insular. It is, as it would seem, no longer interested in sharing that inspiration or it's results with the world.

To paraphrase u.s. maple, the state is bad.

Does this mean that you equate (to take AKA's terms) proliferation with stagnation?

[Faust]

There might be something to what you say. Also not crazy about the many brands that pop up in the goth ninja wake. You won't believe how many emails I get from various designers I never heard of that ply their trade in the aftermath of SZ.

And the problem for me is not that I think they are just knock off artists not worth my time. The problem is that I am afraid that I might miss some genuine talent under the black drapey blur.

[525252]

I want to elaborate on a few points from before, but here's a quick link about H&M banning PFC chemicals in their production

[Geoffrey B. Small]

Dear Surver,

I think we are clearly in a moment when art like fashion, reflects the times… like the great jazz piano master Randy Weston recently said about music "When you have ordinary music, you’re going to have ordinary times...and when you have creative music, you have creative times (http://www.democracynow.org/blog/201..._now_interview. In many ways, politically, economically, and even culturally, the climate is not conducive for creativity as many see it here on SZ or in fashion - particularly on a mass scale. Also, I think it should be noted that not all will put up their most new and ambitious work on SZ, or the internet for that matter, including me, for a long list of reasons. So there is work out there, but it is not necessarily all on SZ or viewable by SZ readers.

Dear Merz,

Yes you are right. Some are indeed hiding in their own ways. Like SunTsu wrote, "The good fighters of old first put themselves beyond the possibility of defeat...security against defeat implies defensive tactics...he who is skilled in defense, hides in the most secret recesses of the earth, making it impossible for the enemy to estimate his whereabouts. this being so, the places that he shall hold are precisely those that the enemy cannot attack...thus, on the one hand, we have ability to protect ourselves; on the other, to gain a victory that is complete... So, some of us hide, and work on our art and product, and God-willing, when the world is turly ready for something truly new, so will we be ready as well… but I need to always emphasize too, many are not active any more, including some you and other SZer's mention and refer to frequently, either due to their technical and financial inablility to make the product themselves, or find someone else who will take the risks, and pay the costs, to make it for them instead. The huge reduction in the size and stability of the market, in conjuction with the aggressive expansion and destructive tactics of the global fashion corporation phenomenon, has made production deals between designers and designer market level manufacturers almost non-existent anymore, and driven many independent designers out of the game.


Dear 525252,

thanks so much for your comments, no apologies necessary, and nice post on the H&M PFC story…

Dear pierce 4,

thanks for the link, I have just finished reading it now. (Mark Antliff "Fascism, Modernism & Modernity" The Art Bulletin, Vol.84, No.1.) Very interesting essay, I particularly found the space and time points very intriguing, and how fascists were able to utilize art movements and trends and spin them around to support their agendas. I believe this was made more feasible by a failure of the existing leadership and center in power prior to the rise of the fascists to see and adapt to the social changes that were triggering these movements and trends adequately. Something we should all watch out for in these times as well. There is already a lot of 'green' product that is not green at at all.

And I agree and support your actions as taken with your own situation. Don't give up any hope though. And yes, SZ and all of us, each in our own unique way can have an effect. Positive or negative. I prefer the former, and will continue to try to do so in everything that I can. I can say, that I have lived long enough to see that change can happen: if you make the first drop into a still pond, ripples will ensue and go farther than you could ever possibly imagine. Just last year for example, in Italy we performed a miracle with nuclear power against a truly tyrannical opponent far bigger and more powerful than we thought we could ever be. But we started as a single drop in the pond, then more drops...one individual at a time, and in the end our ripples became a tidal wave that did indeed, effect a huge change for the better, at least for that country. I have seen, and been part of, other examples as well.

Coming up a piece I wrote in 2008, that I believe is pertinent still today and for this thread…

[Geoffrey B. Small]

For the record...

.

For the record, I am posting for a limited time, an essay I wrote in early June of 2008 for a Surface magazine
request. I believe the material is as valid today (if not more so), as it pertains to these discussions, than when it
was written back then over four years ago.

You can access it here...

http://www.stylezeitgeist.com/forums/showthread.php?p=388413#post388413

Best wishes, Geoffrey

.

[525252]

This is a post elaborating on an issue lightly touched before:

While its the job of a designer to create more options, its also necessary for a legal response which reduces them. I can imagine this being contentious in a slightly *American* values system which upholds free markets and freedom of choice but when it comes to sociopathic/psychopathic work ethics with no capacity for empathy and responsible treatment of others, these things need to be regulated and banned.
As seen in Jamie Oliver's crusade against bad food in the US, suggesting or even providing a better option is not enough. Bureaucratic messes and loopholes in conjunction with the illogical human inability to abandon habit leaves a fine environment for abuse.
The point of having a law which forbids murder is not to prevent everyone from becoming murderers. Murders occur nonetheless, but having this law allows for there to be a standard which hopes to deter murderers because punishment becomes their compromise when there is nothing to lose in all other human faculties (eg. emotionally, guilt and trauma is the compromise which stops most people from killing everyone).
This legal standard doesn't stop murders, but it reduces them and it is necessary.

So with sociopathic business people who cannot recognise a compromise in exploiting thousands of human beings, there needs to be a legal standard which shows them compromise.
As far as I know, laws are being targeted at the wrong set of people who do what they do out of desperation, not greed. (For the millionth time, and I know nobody's arguing against me here) unethical and unsustainable practice should not be an option in the first place and its really up to the law to address this problem.

[Geoffrey B. Small]

.

Totally agree with you 525252. Fashion reflects the society it finds itself in. Corrupt society begets corrupt fashion. Oppressive society that continuously reduces education levels of the masses, allows a few interests to buy up and control all major media communication channels, degrades technical skill sets of its people and critical thinking, blocks alternative points of view and information, and steadily eliminates civil liberties starting with due process of law (habius corpus) and freedom of speech, and allows the same few interests to buy up and control entire governments and their political processes and lawmaking capacities as well... begets oppressive fashion for the masses that falls in line and keeps everyone else in line too. If the society is a dependent one based upon the conquest, occupation and exploitation of others beyond its own "formal" borders to feed and keep up with its wasteful and unsustainable way of life, its method of clothing itself and its fashion will naturally also become dependent on this dependency and its methodology as well.

To really change the fashion, you must change the society. That has been part of my message all along. That's why I support Occupy and every non-violent protestor out there in the world right now facing down a bullet, tear-gas canister, rendition, imprisonment and death who is working to save the dignity, freedom and fairness that this society worldwide needs to make things better and safer for everyone, including the interests that are trying to suppress it. That's why my collection is dedicated to the Occupy movement this season. It's actually fundamental to fashion being able to go anywhere and get creative and exciting again.

Give me a society that wants, appreciates, and yes, can afford great new ideas in fashion (or just about anything else for that matter) that don't cheat the customer, the maker, or the environment...and I, and I am sure, plenty of my colleagues, will be glad to work our hearts out to deliver truckloads of such products and ideas. But right now, the society of this world is rotten to the core, the majority of folks barely have enough money to even keep their house and or even eat (over a billion are starving today including more and more in America- and boy, just wait 'till next year). And as practitioners in this field, we must find ways to keep ourselves going and survive too (80% of us are gone already). Wake up folks. We are in dark times, headed full-bore to a new feudalistic middle ages. And fashion reflects it. So to all those who are bored with fashion, I say stop just blaming the designers and get out there and do something to change your society like even I am doing in my own tiny way. If everybody (and I mean everybody) does their part, it will work. Our fragile thread of democracy will live for one more generation of brilliance. And over time, as our society improves so will our fashion. The Renaissance will be possible once again. But you need Enlightenment. Now is the time to make it happen.

Geoffrey

.

[Marko]

Geoffrey,
I thoroughly enjoyed the essay you wrote. It demonstrates great foresight. I do not always agree entirely with you, but I admire your intelligence and passion. I also appreciate the time you spend to share your thoughts and knowledge through your posts. Thank you.

[525252]

But right now, the society of this world is rotten to the core, the majority of folks barely have enough money to even keep their house and or even eat (over a billion are starving today including more and more in America- and boy, just wait 'till next year). And as practitioners in this field, we must find ways to keep ourselves going and survive too (80% of us are gone already). Wake up folks. We are in dark times, headed full-bore to a new feudalistic middle ages. And fashion reflects it. So to all those who are bored with fashion, I say stop just blaming the designers and get out there and do something to change your society like even I am doing in my own tiny way

but we mustn't be cynical! I say if people are bored of fashion, they should have nothing to do with it. If all that can be committed is a half interested chore, the cause is better off without it. I don't mean this in a pretentious fashion club kind of way, its just that any specialised problem is complex, and the example of charity shows good intentions are not enough (there was a website dedicated to this point which I can't link for the moment because its servers are down, but this article should do for now)

I would like to think that there is some prospect of being able to shop, say in a supermarket, not having to check labels for stupendously unhealthy ingredients, where things can be bought without having to seek out the no artificial flavours, organic, eco bullshite branding. Not because I'm lazy, nor because I'm an unintelligent shopper, but just because I don't care about food so much and I hope to god those who are in the position to make informed decisions about what food is available to enter my body will not be full of crap.

People are forced everyday to have some sort of trust in their sources of food, the supermarkets and the suppliers of produce and frankly its disgusting that there's this suspiciousness about whether the eggs I bought really came from a nice sunny place like the picture on the packaging.

I don't believe in educating the masses so much because its far more effective for a specialist to change the infrastructure and the source of the problem itself. Can you really force everyone to become Renaissance men?
The world can take shorter showers for decades to conserve water, but the same amount can be saved by reducing industrial wastage for one day.

[525252]

Also Geoffrey, I would very much like to hear your opinion on whether there is a middle step which would connect very high end clothing (such as GBS) to the very low end consumer (not even Zara or H&M, lets say Walmart bargain binner). I believe ideally there should be some sort of something which allows anyone to access the better product, but lets speak hypothetically because of how fantastical the notion is. (the idea of a universal dignity in clothing and dress is just that unfathomable)

Having just thought about it intensely right now (brain constipation) I think its a matter of something that can't be resolved visibly. This is lending from a previous thought on the thread, such an inequity between incomes or product prices *should not* exist, the two polarities could never meet unless the distance between could naturally decrease.

But another thing you've mentioned- that your work lasts longer and ends up being better value than the bargain bins, but again your work is put in state of being less accessible because of the idea that things become "unfashionable". So the speed of fashion too would have to naturally decrease.

An open question by the way, what is the "middle step" to reducing the speed of fashion?

[several_girls]

wow... there is a general overall stagnation in the zeitgeist lately... been noticing very very few postings re any designers work/collections and only in other subjects... especially telling is the re-upheaval of the 'favourite collections' thread where suddenly so many people posted... nostalgia and good ol' times... this is not just happening in the fashion-related fields, but seems to be everywhere... are we all just too jaded with everything since information and imagery are so easily accessible nowadays that nothing is 'precious' anymore

Reviewing the thread, I understood this as a central theme. Stagnation. I appreciate the discussion of material reality and think it can't be separated from the other discussions in this thread, but I want to look critically at our own perceptions.

The period of "innovation," of golden age, of Hedi, Raf, MMM, Lang, I attribute our perception of an efflorescence of innovation to rising income inequality. Locate your favorite collections and designers 'gold' periods on the graph. Does anything line up?



My argument is this: expansion of a wealthier class entails the expansion of services dedicated to this class, including, but not limited to: feeding them, dressing them, entertaining them, housing them, cleaning up after them, etc. What we witnessed as a period of innovation was actually a reflection of the growth of a rich caste. But, the twist is the entrance of menswear; womenswear was previously available for artistic interpretation.

Innovation continues, but if my speculation is at all on the mark, income inequality will have decelerated or flattened in recent years. The "golden age" was really the birth of a new market, now it is just spinning its wheels after being established. The engine is now running, and yet still ask why we don't see any dynamic change. I read a few stories from Atelier's thread. I wonder how much of their profit comes from those surreal visits from Kravitz or John Mayer where they walk from their private appointments with bags of new clothes.

I grant here a degree of independence for aesthetics. Certainly, there are a lot here that are sick of black and drapey top-heavy silhouettes, and this is what they're referring to when they say "stagnation."

What this means for the topic of the thread is there will be no "next" in the same way we saw this previous "era," unless there comes a similarly dramatic rise or fall in income inequality. Just a note: I don't mean to imply something as simple as, "income inequality is a bad thing and must be eliminated."

[avout]

The period of "innovation," of golden age, of Hedi, Raf, MMM, Lang, I attribute our perception of an efflorescence of innovation to rising income inequality. Locate your favorite collections and designers 'gold' periods on the graph. Does anything line up?



My argument is this: expansion of a wealthier class entails the expansion of services dedicated to this class, including, but not limited to: feeding them, dressing them, entertaining them, housing them, cleaning up after them, etc.

This is a genuinely interesting possibility, but I don't see enough here to say that it is so. The fact that the collections "line up" with rising inequality is, in itself, merely a curiosity. Here are a few other things that line up.

91-99 and 04-07 were periods of general economic expansion (from which the rich benefitted disproportionately, yes). If anything, it would be easier to say that luxury markets follow the general booms and busts of the economy rather than pinning it specifically on income inequality.

Innovation continues, but if my speculation is at all on the mark, income inequality will have decelerated or flattened in recent years.

It hasn't.

Just a note: I don't mean to imply something as simple as, "income inequality is a bad thing and must be eliminated."

You seemed to be implying the opposite.