Rick Owens

[Shucks]

seconded. how about the sustainability/fair trade thread..?

[superlatens]

Coincidence, or he's an avid reader of his thread

considering how self-absorbed he can be i wouldn't be surprised if read threads about himself online

[BSR]

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Kering is a rename of Pinault-Printemps-Auchan their previous portfolio of conglomerate holdings including one of the world's largest hyper supermarket chains (Auchan), France's biggest department stores (Printemps) and biggest electronics and music/entertainment chains (FNAC), throw in Puma as well, and you have some of the bloodiest hands in this whole worldwide slavery/consumerism/outsourcing Macbethian story. The fact that with the rename, they suddenly have pr stooges giving big interviews on the B__sh-t of Fashion (BoF) claiming that Kering, like H&M, Adidas, Nike and all the other corpscum, is suddenly totally devoted to sustainability and ethical creation these days is... well pet-food info only for the most stupid and the most uninformed patsyes among us. And that of course, is the majority of consumers these days.
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Kering is the rename of Pinault-Printemps-La Redoute, not Pinault Printemps Auchan (which has never existed, since Auchan is owned by another family (Mulliez)). Also Kering sold FNAC in 2012. That said, I appreciate your views and think you're basically very right in your appreciation of the situation.

regarding Rick, I find it interesting that we moved from a blissfully happy look at everything the brand does (from the clothes to Lamyland stuff) to the discussion of the disgusting moldovian business.

[Geoffrey B. Small]

corrections noted and why this conversation is here

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Thanks for the correction BSR, you are absolutely correct. I am writing in a hurry both working here and trying to get what I believe are some really important points posted as quickly as I can and alas my memory at my age sometimes is not as I wish it to be. With profuse apologies from my side- PPR is Pinault-Printemps-LaRedoute, not Auchan. La Redoute is historically France's biggest mail-order mass retailer. LaRedoute is no angel either and we can throw in Conforama which was also part of the holdings of the family. FNAC was sold off as were all of the others as well to create a pure focused luxury industry conglomerate just like LVMH which is being run by the son now of the founder, and that is Kering today.

In regards to moving the conversation to "somewhere else," I am not sure.

We are talking about a designer who has played a large role in what all of us at SZ seem or claim to be about, and about that designer's processes.

For the record I quote the text of the opening page of the entire StyleZeitgeist.com Forum to remind all of us here:

"Zeitgeist - originally a German word, literally meaning Spirit (Geist) of the Time (Zeit). It has come to denote an intellectual and cultural climate of an era
StyleZeitgeist is an online community of individuals who are passionate about fashion design. Fashion stands at unique crossroads of artistic and individual expression, utility, and commerce, and we recognize it as such. Today, it has also become an integral part of Zeitgeist. The aim of this community is to promote an ongoing discussion about fashion, through online forums and news. Another aim of this community is to divorce fashion from consumerism and celebrity culture. If this suits you, you have come to the right place."


I would think that all of us including mrbeuys and Shucks are quite well aware of this mission statement for the forum, or at least I thought so. For me, it is the only reason why I participate at all and is what keeps me here coming back reading and contributing. And , if this is going to be a serious forum for discussion of design as the above statement implies… then the examination of a designer's processes and his/her work approaches are fundamental for the forum's relevance and integrity. I remind both mrbeuys and Shucks that this was all started with the discovery by SZ members of Rick Owens design articles being produced with Made in Moldavia labels inside and posting specific questions about it.

The issues of outsourcing, slavery, sustainability and ethics in the textile industry is now one of the biggest issues on the planet today. And here we have supposedly one of our "own," who has like many others here, benefited enormously from all the free coverage, exposure and readership of the industry's leading avant-garde design online forum, and is recently boasting in the press to be doing over 120 million euros in annual turnover, and at the same time switching production from Italy to Moldavia with its inherent questions and ramifications on a wide variety of levels, and suddenly the discussion about this must be moved elsewhere to another thread?

I for one, would like to know why.

As a practicing designer for almost 40 years, this is a critical issue in the design, philosophy and approach of the artist in question and should be open to discussion in a fair and serious manner on the thread as it relates to the "Designer and his work" as this SZ category forum is currently named. If such a development as major as this in the SZ universe cannot be discussed on this thread, but rather swept away under the rug to the far less viewed and less specifically relevant "fair trade and sustainability et al." thread -- then we are not holding a serious design forum on "Designers and their work" here, but rather just another sycophantic online fan page where superficial PR-driven material can be distributed gratis to a very targeted commercial market audience, while the real and sometimes hard and challenging issues of design as it directly relates to our industry and metier, as well as to the designer and the brand itself specifically today, are avoided and silenced.

If we agree to this then we are buckling under and becoming just another mouthpiece for consumerism and celebrity culture-- absolutely contrary to the forum's original mission.

I have had to rise to the challenge of many SZ people over the years on my own thread on SZ in this same exact forum to both explain and defend much of what I believe in and how my firm designs and produces our work. I fail to see why Rick Owens or any of his people or his producers are not able to do the same on the thread that is supposed to be about them and their work, and instead, have other members of SZ simply try to eliminate such conversations when they are viewed as inconvenient. Or perhaps some of them are working for the designer's firm or interests, which is even more reason why they should speak up and meet with the issues in question, instead of running away and hiding from them.

I don't make a thing in Moldavia, but if I do, I would expect a ton of comments and posts to make their way to my thread on SZ. And I would either have to deal with them or let them sit there in cyberspace unanswered for the rest of the world to see. I don't see why this designer should be treated any differently than the rest of us. You make your choices and you deal with the consequences. Pushing things under the rug does nothing. Discussions of these issues on this thread may do the opposite. And I firmly hope and encourage the people at Rick Owens to read this thread, answer it if they wish, and above all, rethink their production sourcing strategy and implementation now and in the future. Perhaps not everyone on SZ, but still quite enough of us here, are rooting for them to do better. They have it in their power to make the right decisions, perhaps hearing a little from this forum about doing so will be the impetus to get them to move on it. As one of the first of this cadre of designers apparently to hit the 9 figure annual sales mark it would be nice to see a new kind of role model for the rest of us to look to, respect, and admire.

For all the young and aspiring talented design people out there who read this forum every day and dream of someday being able to a make difference in this world and in this industry for the better, and all the customers who are trying to do the same with their choices and decisions on where and how to spend their money on their wardrobe, we could really use an example that shows us a new way of doing things for the better or at least, is trying like hell to do so. Not to do so sends us all a completely different message. And coming from the second most viewed designer on the forum, that is a big let down for all of us, including me.

Thank you all for reading this and your kind consideration on this matter.

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[Shucks]

I remind both Mr. Beuys and Shucks that this was all started with the discovery by SZ members of Rick Owens design articles being produced with Made in Moldavia labels inside and posting specific questions about it.

dude, i was one of the first persons on this forum to bring up rick's production in moldova and criticizing it big time. it's even somewhere in this thread i think. but when the discussion is more about gucci etc. than about rick, it's derailing this thread, imo.

so chill.

ps. for reference:

http://stylezeitgeist.com/forums/sho...72&postcount=4
http://stylezeitgeist.com/forums/sho...82&postcount=7

[Icarium]

Thanks for your illuminating posts on this subject Geoffrey.

So, I got to this part in Gommorah, about Angelina Jolie's white Dolce & Gabbana suit. Heartbreaking if true...

http://lifeworth.com/2007review/qtr41-2007.htm

In a more petty vein.

You forget, if you adopt enough 3rd world country kids, you get a card that morally allows you to wear slave-labor constructed clothing.

It is strange how inconsistent one's morals values are. Robbing Paul to pay Peter -- the net seems to be nothing more than guilt-reduction and ego-stroking vs moral outcomes.

[curiouscharles]

any other garments from Rick that are sewn in Moldova?

or is it just leathers?

[mrbeuys]

If we agree to this then we are buckling under and becoming just another mouthpiece for consumerism and celebrity culture-- absolutely contrary to the forum's original mission.

Geoffrey,
I think I made it abundantly clear, albeit in parentheses, that I think this is a very important discussion to have. I am only suggesting to move this to a dedicated thread (and why not in the Designers section), so we can refer back to it and draw more attention to it and discuss other brands apart from Rick.
I am not suggesting that we only discuss who wore it best or exchange product codes. If you followed my contributions over the past 7 years that should be clear. And the people who are only interested in that won't be swayed by reading any of this in this thread anyway.

Anyway, it's not my decision. I, like everyone else, really value your contributions here. Just don't make assumptions about my motivation please.

[MJRH]

Judging by post count, lotsa folks hit SZ for Rick Owens alone. Moving the last few posts would definitely limit exposure to this topic. Going out on a limb, I'm gonna guess a decent slice of this thread's pie is younger folk, or people new to fashion, some of whom may not have given any thought to these abuses. Leaving these posts here at least gives them the option to think about all of that.

It *would* be nice to broaden the discussion, though. Is there a way to copy posts to a new thread without moving the originals?

PS. May be in a minority, but at least half my favourite conversations these parts are "derails."

[Arkady]

Guys just have the conversation or start a new thread, holy fucking shit planet by committee over here.

[unwashed]

I'd rather discuss about this kind of things than 200K beds. But once in a while we can also benefit from some light conversation topics.
That said a couple of pages back we already started a conversation which was then seen as derailing. I would like to see the discussion to continue for a much broader range of designers and therefore a separate thread in the 'Designers and their work' section would be appropriate.

[galia]

Off topic, but I would be super interested to know what you have to say about Chanel as a company, Geoffrey. If it is inappropriate for this thread, I would be happy to hace this discussion moved or to have the answer via pm. I always enjoy your industry insights :)

[Ahimsa]

I have created a new thread for the discussion of ethical production and designers in general:

http://www.stylezeitgeist.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19966

Please continue the derail/ other designer ethics discussions there, but I do not object to further Rick related policies here.

[stemcell]

All of this seems super relevant and interesting within THIS Thread. There is no reason to move it, all of us are smart enough to know that this is the Rick thread and to find the connection. Soon the women's runway will be presented for cyclops and we'll all switch the discussion to how beautiful it is and on and on. Then when it hits stores, and we see more or less moldova tags, that conversation will be relevant again and continue. Who knows, you leave this here, maybe by next spring someone will get more answers from the brand, maybe there could be an official statement, or maybe we'll some how find that despite the reports the conditions aren't as horrifying as thought, and maybe it's only a handful of leather jackets and not the majority of products, or maybe there IS a good reason to product a few things there. Maybe the OM factory wasn't surveyed, maybe it's smaller with different conditions than some older factories in the area. I literally have no idea, I know very little about any of this... but I've learned way more over the past few pages than the many many pages before it. And I still love Rick. Although I did have a very long and irritating nightmare the other night about this, I cannot really remember but it felt like it went on forever— researching moldova, all these feelings of guilt and trying to contact Rick— haha it's gotten ridiculous... Dreaming about the ethics of Rick's production. FFS.

[Ahimsa]

All of this seems super relevant and interesting within THIS Thread. There is no reason to move it, all of us are smart enough to know that this is the Rick thread and to find the connection.

Discuss Rick's ethics within this thread if you'd like, but the other designers should be discussed elsewhere as this is the Rick Owens thread.