Young French Designers (I) - STAT_MENT [ADELINE BASELY]

[madeleine]

the first kind of pants reminds me of the french uniforms during the first world war..

[Avantster]

To be clear, those that understand Adeline's work will realise the two distinct aspects;

1. The made to measure service, a style laboratory of sorts involving the maker and wearer in a design interaction (As BSR noted this has it's own difficulties and risks yet is ultimately much more rewarding).
2. The ready-to-wear capsule collection formulated upon six postulates; archetypes of garments that define her vision of menswear.

Adeline noted that the pants in question were seen as a challenging exercise in style and construction; and not a creation. Christian was kind enough to lay out the entire thought process for us. While those with more myopic views will make their own conclusions, I think it's great there's a designer willing to explore and experiment in this way; such experimentation is a necessary component of a greater process of innovation.

Ive stayed out because I find it a really stupid discussion, I think people should broaden their scope or reference, in order to understand things better. every time a piece is created/ viewed that bares some similarities to a certain designers work, it automatically follows that the creator is accused of copying the designer.

Listen, all fashion is inspired by some source, there is a distinct difference in directly ripping off something as opposed to being inspired by it. also, two pieces can have very striking similarities, but it doesn't necessarily mean that one designer copied the other, or that both were even inspired by the same thing, in creating their pieces.

Exactly, thanks Zamb. We do not live in a social or intellectual vacuum.

[fenrost]

We do not live in a social or intellectual vacuum.

I think if you look at the whole picture, there are many capable tailors out there that are capable of what adeline does, the subject process, and development, although is relevant, by all means we are not necessitating enough (even they are recycled and experimented) truism and originality in the final product, especally young designers when there's a lack of presence and entity in her work - it's inevitable such conclusion would take place.

Myopic it may be, the menswear in general are exploded with new young designers, and all seemingly eroding with the same incorrigibly ethos, while marginalization seems great, but they are the killing and eating itself at the same time- It's recycled and still boring.

Maybe someone in the boutique industry will have a better idea, how menswear in general are doing in Europe. While, as said, support of young designers is great, but it's also good to have an acceptance of criticism for growth. Anyway, we should be emphasizing more real ideas those who are precedent of their entity in their product.

[Chant]

I think if you look at the whole picture, there are many capable tailors out there that are capable of what adeline does.

Actually, no. No one offers here this kind of service. And I'm quite sure that it's the same where you live. You'll find for sure classic mtm tailors, but not a single one who will be skilled in comtemporary design and/or co-create the piece with you.

Fashion theorem n° 3 [to be demonstrated though] : Wearing/loving CCP makes you incisive.

[fenrost]

Actually, no. No one offers here this kind of service. And I'm quite sure that it's the same where you live. You'll find for sure classic mtm tailors, but not a single one who will be skilled in comtemporary design and/or co-create the piece with you.

Fashion theorem n° 3 [to be demonstrated though] : Wearing/loving CCP makes you incisive.

Really? Well, I have a local tailor, specialize in invisible-mending , deal with contemporary design clothes in daily basis. She seems to be known for tailoring wedding dresses for the deforms... anyway that's another subject.., as for ccp, i actually have a love/hate relationship for ccp in general . Forgot to add tho, I highly agree on what Ben said " it's far more rewarding to be at the source of the cloth you're wearing than to adopt a ready-made universe," Very true, but since your happy with the pants, then mission accomplish as a collab but chant, it's still your fault.

[kuugaia]

Lol whoa when did this conversation get so serious? I thought that Christian's 'playground photo' was a prod for discussion in jest? I don't think anybody is taking a stab at Adeline at all, not sure how that came across. Apologies to you Adeline if it did! I am indeed a fan of your work.

Anyway, as I stated before, I think that Adeline should do what Zam has stated that he does with his custom made service. "This is separate and apart from me creating a line and I go at lengths to make a distinction between the two." The 'style laboratory' that Adeline offers also infuses the inspirations/wants of clients, therefore it isn't entirely her work. There are repercussions of labelling these custom made pieces to Adeline now that she has her own label, as the client's inspirations get fused with Adelines'. So I think that she should clearly seperate the two otherwise people will never know what Adeline's vision for stat-ment is.

[Chant]

/\ Good playground discussion.

[Enaml]

There are repercussions of labelling these custom made pieces to Adeline now that she has her own label, as the client's inspirations get fused with Adelines'. So I think that she should clearly seperate the two otherwise people will never know what Adeline's vision for stat-ment is.

This is interesting to me. I see no problem labeling them to Adeline (either physically, using a garment label, or just in discussion) as long as that 'cred' is separate from her mainline or what have you.

[Chant]

I'm not sure that everybody here has read properly the article about Adeline's work on Scoute : the distinction one would like to see between her co-operative work and the capsule collection is meaningless. And there's no new "label", check the website, she always offered mtm pieces and limited collection pieces. In addition, I'd say that her "true" work is the co-operative process, since the capsule collection was only a response to a request made by some people interested in her work. But it opened a new path.
Btw "originality" is so overrated...

[kuugaia]

^ Her mtm collection have been there first and more her 'true' work than the capsule collection, but in my opinion, the landscape for her changed the moment she released postulate. This makes her a designer of her own line, shouldn't there be a distinction between this 'side' of her work and the work she mixes with others?

Not that it's a problem for me or anything, but I think it would create less misinterpretations for people new to the label. For example: if somebody requests that she makes a similar/re-worked piece of a popular item (CCP double buckle belt/MA+ Aviator), and then it's labeled stat-ment...I think people who haven't heard of it before will immediately associate it as a rip-off brand.

And I don't think everybody will bother to try and understand Adeline's work with the sea of labels already out there. I'm just seeing it as a positive thing for stat-ment with no real negatives if this distinction is made. Maybe stat-ment for her line and 'By Adeline Basely' for the other. I'm terrible with names, but you get the point!

[stereophobic]

could've sworn there was another post here this morning, did mods remove it or is there some kind of next-level redacting going on?

[fenrost]

i redacted. beating the dead horse is tiring.

margiela line 14 - replicas

: \

[kuugaia]

^ We have already established that 'copying' is a part of fashion, and that it's all about who can do the better iteration. Nobody is accusing anybody of copying, not that it's a problem, as Christian has explained these pants are entirely different to CCP except in concept. What seperates rip-off items and re-worked items is whether or not a particular designer has altered the garment with their vision embedded into it. But because Adeline is a new designer, not everybody will have the opportunity to understand her vision and line before they stumble across items of the mtm service. Mis-interpretations and bad first impressions is something that no designer wants.

I don't believe the majority is accepting of the fact that fashion is a world of copying, and that 'originality is overrated'.

[adeline basely]

my mistake lies in fabric choice that's too close from CCP works.

your mistake (except MonaDahl) is to keep a formal approach that's not the key to understand designers work. we work on clothes architecture, shape is the result of this work, not the start.
CCP experiments different ways playing with traditional seams. he works on cut, proportions and his personal vision of body and human being.
my aim is to cancel traditional seams and tailor rules to create my own way to cut and make clothes, using traditional fabrics and giving to my customers comfort and elegance.
we both use tradition to create something new, not by the same way.
our work consist in paying tribute to tradition contradicting it.

very interesting debate!

[fenrost]

yes, it is. :)

aah.. the internet..

just to put it out there, there is no animosity at all in this discussion, me and adeline have spoken in private, prior and understood well both our opinions coming from and have different stance.

this is what forums are all about, no? instead of the same opinion. : \